4 ms·

It won't happen, because there's no political incentive to do so. The citizens of these beleaguered countries seem quite happy with the government management t

It won't happen, because there's no political incentive to do so. The citizens of these beleaguered countries seem quite happy with the government management thus far[1]. I honestly don't know how anyone can look at the UK response thus far and think - more of that please! [1] https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1355606835873669126 https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1355606835873669126

throwaway3699 6y ago
The UK is faced with a lack of choice here. My read is that people strongly dislike the current government policies but believe that the cons are "least worst". There's been very little in the way of real opposition, sadly. For instance, when the Tories do make actual fuckups Labour usually resort to off-topic complaints about idpol so the Tories just do whatever they want with no push back.
- eecc 6y ago
  Idpol?
  - throwaway3699 6y ago
    Identity politics.
- jasdine817 6y ago
  The main issue is a voting system that only allows two parties to compete and makes parties between fractious groups of people with very different views. The Tories for whatever reason are just far better at aligning most of their party to the goal of winning.
  - throwaway3699 6y ago
    The two-party system is bad, but I do believe Labour are responsible for making themselves unelectable. The last general election they were running some of the most disliked front-benchers in politics: McDonnell, Corbyn and Abbott, as well as making it very clear they were anti-Brexit. (I'm from the North, this is the general sentiment in my local community. More stringent lockdown policy is also incredibly unpopular here.)
tristanperry 6y ago
I agree, but it also doesn't help when the Labour opposition have had a string of weak opposition leaders. Even Keir Starmer seems content to sit back and only critise the Government's response the day or days after a grim milestone/but of news. Why isn't he constantly saying that the UK should totally shut their borders, for example? He should be saying this and nothing else, and directing the rest of Labour to do the same. That's how an effective opposition works. Instead he generally chooses silence.
- djaychela 6y ago
  I have to say I've been really disappointed in KS - I wanted him to win the leadership, and was expecting a much more robust performance from him. I wouldn't say he chooses silence, but he often sounds a bit whiny and little more.
- threeseed 6y ago
  I don't understand why Labour doesn't bring up Australia. UK is 2.5x the population of Australia and has 136x the number of deaths.
djaychela 6y ago
As already said by someone else, I don't think that's the right reading of it. I know it's anecdotal, but I don't know anyone here (I'm in the southern UK) who thinks that the government has handled this even remotely competently, but they also acknowledge that there's not really an ideal way to handle it. The only thing that seems to be going 'to plan' is the vaccine rollout, which has surprised me as I never thought they'd get near the target figures they now look to be going to achieve (i.e. vaccinating the four key groups by Feb 15). You have to make some sacrifices to win the battle, but it seems we've paid a lot of the price (in terms of economic costs as well as deaths), but without the positives that should have come from that. As soon as there's any sign of let-up in any of the statistics, it seems the government wants to remove the measures, which seems to be a bad idea to me, but I'm a chump who's not making the decisions!
the-dude 6y ago
You are exactly right. The Dutch response has been and still is a shitshow. We are up for election mid-March, the ruling party and PM will be re-elected. The populace will not 'take chances' during crises.
jl6 6y ago
The UK response has been mediocre rather than awful. * PPE sourcing has been poor. * Track and trace has been poor, and for the money they spent should have been far better. * Lockdowns have been too leaky, and too late. * But the vaccination research and rollout has been excellent. The high UK death toll is only partly due to the above mediocrities, and mainly due to factors that cannot be pinned on the government: * A very highly internationally mobile population that seeded infections everywhere in the country. * A very highly internally mobile population that spread infections everywhere in the country. * A very high density population * Little experience of pandemic management and limited pre-existing testing capacity * No culture of mask wearing * A higher than average aged population * A higher than average obese population * Higher percentage of ethnic minority individuals who have been more susceptible to the disease, even after adjusting for health and income inequalities. * More northerly climate with colder temperatures and higher rates of vitamin D deficiency * Lower public tolerance for restrictions on movement * Insufficient police numbers to enforce lockdown policies No SINGLE cause from the lists above explain the UK's high death rate. It's a perfect storm of all of them.

throwaway3699 6y ago

The UK is faced with a lack of choice here. My read is that people strongly dislike the current government policies but believe that the cons are "least worst". There's been very little in the way of real opposition, sadly. For instance, when the Tories do make actual fuckups Labour usually resort to off-topic complaints about idpol so the Tories just do whatever they want with no push back.

eecc 6y ago
Idpol?
- throwaway3699 6y ago
  Identity politics.
jasdine817 6y ago
The main issue is a voting system that only allows two parties to compete and makes parties between fractious groups of people with very different views. The Tories for whatever reason are just far better at aligning most of their party to the goal of winning.
- throwaway3699 6y ago
  The two-party system is bad, but I do believe Labour are responsible for making themselves unelectable. The last general election they were running some of the most disliked front-benchers in politics: McDonnell, Corbyn and Abbott, as well as making it very clear they were anti-Brexit. (I'm from the North, this is the general sentiment in my local community. More stringent lockdown policy is also incredibly unpopular here.)

tristanperry 6y ago

I agree, but it also doesn't help when the Labour opposition have had a string of weak opposition leaders. Even Keir Starmer seems content to sit back and only critise the Government's response the day or days after a grim milestone/but of news. Why isn't he constantly saying that the UK should totally shut their borders, for example? He should be saying this and nothing else, and directing the rest of Labour to do the same. That's how an effective opposition works. Instead he generally chooses silence.

djaychela 6y ago
I have to say I've been really disappointed in KS - I wanted him to win the leadership, and was expecting a much more robust performance from him. I wouldn't say he chooses silence, but he often sounds a bit whiny and little more.
threeseed 6y ago
I don't understand why Labour doesn't bring up Australia. UK is 2.5x the population of Australia and has 136x the number of deaths.

djaychela 6y ago

As already said by someone else, I don't think that's the right reading of it. I know it's anecdotal, but I don't know anyone here (I'm in the southern UK) who thinks that the government has handled this even remotely competently, but they also acknowledge that there's not really an ideal way to handle it. The only thing that seems to be going 'to plan' is the vaccine rollout, which has surprised me as I never thought they'd get near the target figures they now look to be going to achieve (i.e. vaccinating the four key groups by Feb 15). You have to make some sacrifices to win the battle, but it seems we've paid a lot of the price (in terms of economic costs as well as deaths), but without the positives that should have come from that. As soon as there's any sign of let-up in any of the statistics, it seems the government wants to remove the measures, which seems to be a bad idea to me, but I'm a chump who's not making the decisions!

the-dude 6y ago

You are exactly right. The Dutch response has been and still is a shitshow. We are up for election mid-March, the ruling party and PM will be re-elected. The populace will not 'take chances' during crises.

jl6 6y ago

The UK response has been mediocre rather than awful. * PPE sourcing has been poor. * Track and trace has been poor, and for the money they spent should have been far better. * Lockdowns have been too leaky, and too late. * But the vaccination research and rollout has been excellent. The high UK death toll is only partly due to the above mediocrities, and mainly due to factors that cannot be pinned on the government: * A very highly internationally mobile population that seeded infections everywhere in the country. * A very highly internally mobile population that spread infections everywhere in the country. * A very high density population * Little experience of pandemic management and limited pre-existing testing capacity * No culture of mask wearing * A higher than average aged population * A higher than average obese population * Higher percentage of ethnic minority individuals who have been more susceptible to the disease, even after adjusting for health and income inequalities. * More northerly climate with colder temperatures and higher rates of vitamin D deficiency * Lower public tolerance for restrictions on movement * Insufficient police numbers to enforce lockdown policies No SINGLE cause from the lists above explain the UK's high death rate. It's a perfect storm of all of them.