4 ms·

Lived in India in the 1980s - going there on a spiritual journey (yes, I know) and stayed for a few years. When I left the country, two events had occurred for

Lived in India in the 1980s - going there on a spiritual journey (yes, I know) and stayed for a few years. When I left the country, two events had occurred for which I don’t think I’ll be able to see that country in a good light ever again. The first was the anti-Sikh riots after Indira Gandhi’s murder. Politicians were compliant, including the newly elected PM Rajiv Gandhi who at the time famously said “When a tree falls, it’s normal for the earth to shake”. Of course, I haven’t even touched on the events leading up to this, most notably the destruction of the Golden Temple. I spoke to people who saw the riots first-hand, and it tainted my view of that country forever. The second was the Indian intervention in neighboring Sri Lanka. The oppressed Tamil minority were waging a war against the government. India sent in its forces, in the name of brokering peace and then killed thousands of innocent civilians. The Indian man’s propensity for rape was on full display, as the Indian “Peacekeeping” Force (IPKF) weaponized rape against the same populace they came to protect. For what it’s worth, India was humiliated a la Vietnam, and lost thousands of soldiers. The rape issue is also very apparent in modern day Indian society, but I’d rather not open that can of worms in this thread. In either case, after witnessing these happenings from relatively close, I gave up on all hope for that country. Too many rotten apples.

boring_baduku 6y ago
Both the things you are talking about were perpetrated by the Congress party. The current crisis is also their gift. Why are you generalizing the country based on that? It seems you just witnessed these things but never understood why they happened and who were the perpetrators.
- aparsons 6y ago
  I posted it expecting downvotes. On the surface, yes I am generalizing the country. But really - and perhaps I should have made it more clear - the reason for my disillusionment were structural/cultural issues: - Willingness to oppress people, and keep the oppressed down when you’re supposed to be helping them. Current events are very relevant to the past events. - Party-over-people politics and crippling corruption - regardless of party - Hindu extremism (brahmanism to be specific) - current government is very much guilty of this - Rape and weaponization of rape - cultural issue across India. Will not be fixed for a long time - it is engrained in the fabric of their society.
  - boring_baduku 6y ago
    Since you are replying with more generalizations that are widely propagated, I will also generalize and say that these are systemic issues introduced by a thousand year Muslim rule and then British colonization followed by Congress rule. It seems to be a concerted effort of various Western media led by the British ones to push the above propaganda to justify their colonization of India. What surprises me the most is when somebody talks about say the US, they don't usually talk about things like oppression of African Americans but when it's about India you are guaranteed to hear about caste or pollution or any of the assorted Indian stereotypes. As if no other country has any problem. Why not have some nuance when it comes to Indian issues? Combine that with a large Muslim population that wants to go back to the glorious Mughal days. That brings a whole lot of other problems. Two to three generations have already been brainwashed by history textbooks that concerned more with political correctness than truth. Not just political correctness, Indian history books blatantly lie to their readers. Most of the narratives about Indians are from non-Indians. Look at the Indologists of most western universities. Majority of them are non-Indians. India's story is told by people who have not lived in India, don't know our languages, have no skin in the game here. I am tired of hearing the false narratives of Hindu (especially brahminical) extremism. This is dangerous especially because brahmins are a microminority who have already been genocided in states like Kashmir. But nobody wants to mention this because it doesn't fit the agenda of the newsmakers. And what kind of oppression are you talking about in current scenario? The Sikhs are not oppressed. The 1984 Sikh genocide was committed solely by Indira's congress and was not a Hindu vs Sikh issue. The current government will definitely not keep quiet if they demand for Khalistan if that is what you are talking about. If India goes on giving up regions for minorities, there will be no country left anymore. Most issues in India are because of weak leaders and their twisted definition of secularism to favor minorities. Indian leaders never created an environment to unite the people. They just continued the British divide and rule policy. I blame the foreign (especially Abrahamic religions) powers for completely destroying India's culture. The destruction has been so complete that nobody knows what the original culture was anymore. Of course, conditions have improved since the state got rid some of it's socialist tendencies. But, the rest of the world refuses to get rid of India's previous image. The current Indian generation is aspirational, ambitious and has finally opened it's eyes to how previous governments manipulated the people. It doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks of us anymore. If you still want to stick to what you understood by staying in a limited space for a limited time by interacting with a limited number of people, it is your problem and not Indians'. But, unlike the yesteryears we now have access to platforms and will counter anybody who paints us with a broadstroke.

boring_baduku 6y ago

Both the things you are talking about were perpetrated by the Congress party. The current crisis is also their gift. Why are you generalizing the country based on that? It seems you just witnessed these things but never understood why they happened and who were the perpetrators.

aparsons 6y ago
I posted it expecting downvotes. On the surface, yes I am generalizing the country. But really - and perhaps I should have made it more clear - the reason for my disillusionment were structural/cultural issues: - Willingness to oppress people, and keep the oppressed down when you’re supposed to be helping them. Current events are very relevant to the past events. - Party-over-people politics and crippling corruption - regardless of party - Hindu extremism (brahmanism to be specific) - current government is very much guilty of this - Rape and weaponization of rape - cultural issue across India. Will not be fixed for a long time - it is engrained in the fabric of their society.
- boring_baduku 6y ago
  Since you are replying with more generalizations that are widely propagated, I will also generalize and say that these are systemic issues introduced by a thousand year Muslim rule and then British colonization followed by Congress rule. It seems to be a concerted effort of various Western media led by the British ones to push the above propaganda to justify their colonization of India. What surprises me the most is when somebody talks about say the US, they don't usually talk about things like oppression of African Americans but when it's about India you are guaranteed to hear about caste or pollution or any of the assorted Indian stereotypes. As if no other country has any problem. Why not have some nuance when it comes to Indian issues? Combine that with a large Muslim population that wants to go back to the glorious Mughal days. That brings a whole lot of other problems. Two to three generations have already been brainwashed by history textbooks that concerned more with political correctness than truth. Not just political correctness, Indian history books blatantly lie to their readers. Most of the narratives about Indians are from non-Indians. Look at the Indologists of most western universities. Majority of them are non-Indians. India's story is told by people who have not lived in India, don't know our languages, have no skin in the game here. I am tired of hearing the false narratives of Hindu (especially brahminical) extremism. This is dangerous especially because brahmins are a microminority who have already been genocided in states like Kashmir. But nobody wants to mention this because it doesn't fit the agenda of the newsmakers. And what kind of oppression are you talking about in current scenario? The Sikhs are not oppressed. The 1984 Sikh genocide was committed solely by Indira's congress and was not a Hindu vs Sikh issue. The current government will definitely not keep quiet if they demand for Khalistan if that is what you are talking about. If India goes on giving up regions for minorities, there will be no country left anymore. Most issues in India are because of weak leaders and their twisted definition of secularism to favor minorities. Indian leaders never created an environment to unite the people. They just continued the British divide and rule policy. I blame the foreign (especially Abrahamic religions) powers for completely destroying India's culture. The destruction has been so complete that nobody knows what the original culture was anymore. Of course, conditions have improved since the state got rid some of it's socialist tendencies. But, the rest of the world refuses to get rid of India's previous image. The current Indian generation is aspirational, ambitious and has finally opened it's eyes to how previous governments manipulated the people. It doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks of us anymore. If you still want to stick to what you understood by staying in a limited space for a limited time by interacting with a limited number of people, it is your problem and not Indians'. But, unlike the yesteryears we now have access to platforms and will counter anybody who paints us with a broadstroke.