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"If you're just launching, your focus should not be on performance or how easy it is to dockerize but to figure out who your user really is." I agree here but

"If you're just launching, your focus should not be on performance or how easy it is to dockerize but to figure out who your user really is." I agree here but I should note that my main focus is spending less time debugging errors at runtime and in production, and avoiding errors in the first place. This is primarily why I use rust. "Not sure the verboseness of either golang or rust" Verbosity has nothing at all to do with implementing good, robust code. You could do it in python, rust, or another language. With certain languages you don't have to spend time writing guard code because it's handled natively by the compiler, type system, or both. " dynamically typed languages (arguably) makes it easier to change things," They make it easier to change things, not necessarily correctly. With modern IDEs refactoring is not an issue. "Many have imagined and built valuable stuff in interpreted, dynamically typed languages before you, by being more focused on overall structure and making sure it's strict and resilient. One really doesn't have to search far for successful applications that are certainly way beyond 1000 LoC and still iterate pretty quickly for their size." I am aware of this, but I can't help but wonder if they would be able to iterate much more quickly knowing that the compiler and type system eliminate entire classes of bugs. Sure, you might be able to get to running code a little bit faster, but if you have to spend time guarding it and debugging runtime errors... is it really faster? === There seems to be this mindset that being fledgling startup means no time for silly things like types or compilation, etc, only iteration. If one actually does their market research and figures out who their users are and what they want, one should be able to iterate just as quickly in i.e. golang or another compiled language with a healthy ecosystem. I have not worked at a FAANG company or a company even remotely the size of those companies, but I have created and maintained somewhat large ruby on rails codebases. Debugging runtime errors became my bane, especially when I could not guarantee that the persons writing the ruby code were following modern practices (or any practices at all). Not that I think compilers are perfect, but they -do- catch so many errors, some of which may have made it into runtime.

cbushko 6y ago
I agree with you. I've worked at several startups and they start with 'productive' languages like python, ruby, and PHP. These are great for getting something up and running easily. Everything looks great at the beginning. They have features, customers and a growing codebase full of technical debt. Debt that I think would be greatly reduced if the code was compiled. Maybe it is the price you need to pay to be successful but I doubt it.
capableweb 6y ago
> If one actually does their market research and figures out who their users are and what they want, one should be able to iterate just as quickly in i.e. golang or another compiled language with a healthy ecosystem. That's the key thing. You don't know until you put people in front of what you're building, to understand if you're actually solving the problem. Or even if the problem you're aiming for is the right problem. Hence you want a non-verbose and simple program that is easy to adopt to changes you want to make. Verbose languages that enforces you to be very strict, doesn't allow itself to change as much as a non-strict one. You're right that it's more error-prone, as you don't have the same guarantees. But in the beginning of launching something new to the world, you are gonna need to focus more on what needs to change, rather than how correct something is.

cbushko 6y ago

I agree with you. I've worked at several startups and they start with 'productive' languages like python, ruby, and PHP. These are great for getting something up and running easily. Everything looks great at the beginning. They have features, customers and a growing codebase full of technical debt. Debt that I think would be greatly reduced if the code was compiled. Maybe it is the price you need to pay to be successful but I doubt it.

capableweb 6y ago

> If one actually does their market research and figures out who their users are and what they want, one should be able to iterate just as quickly in i.e. golang or another compiled language with a healthy ecosystem. That's the key thing. You don't know until you put people in front of what you're building, to understand if you're actually solving the problem. Or even if the problem you're aiming for is the right problem. Hence you want a non-verbose and simple program that is easy to adopt to changes you want to make. Verbose languages that enforces you to be very strict, doesn't allow itself to change as much as a non-strict one. You're right that it's more error-prone, as you don't have the same guarantees. But in the beginning of launching something new to the world, you are gonna need to focus more on what needs to change, rather than how correct something is.