7 ms·

It's sad that you have a blind spot as to the benefits that have been afforded to you by society that others do not have. And, of course, since you cannot exper

It's sad that you have a blind spot as to the benefits that have been afforded to you by society that others do not have. And, of course, since you cannot experience what life is like on the other side, you will continue to have this blind spot and deny that you have it.

hunter2_ 6y ago
Even if you're right on average (this is not establishing a position on whether that's the case, but hypothetically if you are), there are exceptions. Not recognizing exceptions is an issue even in this scenario. There are places where being white isn't advantageous, not only places one may travel to, but where one calls home.
czbond 6y ago
People focus on the white privileged males.... ignoring that the U.S. is full of uneducated, broke, white males with little going for them. The country is like 70% white... so of course on a numerical basis you're going to come across more well to do whites than other races. But as a white male - the U.S. did repress the Japanese, American Indian, Muslim, Black, Jewish, Hispanic etc in large swaths, and numerous other minority races in localized areas.
- wernercd 6y ago
  and, around the world, those groups repress others. It's almost as if it's a human condition not limited to "white". As a white male, I live in a country where I'm surrounded by successful people of all stripes - color, race, ethnicity, sexuality, etc, etc, etc. Do we have a perfect history as a country? no... but we also provide opportunity to all - and we have POC in EVERY level of society. From cops to Presidents.
  - cycrutchfield 6y ago
    TIL that electing Barack Obama ended racism in America
    - wernercd 6y ago
      TIL that I said something I never said... (Hint: I never said Obama ended racism... in fact, I wouldn't say that because his policies and his party have made racism WORSE with their identity politics and making everything about race.)
      - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
        Which Obama policies made everything about race? I totally missed that when he was president.
  - czbond 6y ago
    Absolutely - fully agree.
throwawayboise 6y ago
Granting that this privilege exists, why is that seen as something to be taken away, rather than expanded and guaranteed to everyone?
- krapp 6y ago
  Those are just two ways to describe the same thing. It is impossible to grant equal privilege to everyone else without dismantling the systems of white privilege which are designed to prevent that from happening, and doing so would by definition remove privilege from white people.
  - sjwright 6y ago
    You can dismantle privilege by tearing down existing systems or by building greater inclusivity into them. "Dismantling the systems of white privilege" is too vague to disambiguate this semantic dispute. By analogy, you can force male-only clubs to close and you can force male-only clubs to be inviting to women. Either action would dismantle the systems of male privilege.
    - klipt 6y ago
      Ironically we've already been doing this for so long that at this point there are way more female only clubs/universities/organizations than there are male only. Even Boy Scouts is now just Scouts and accepts everyone, but Girl Scouts is still girls only.
      - sjwright 6y ago
        Indeed, though in some instances that’s as it should be. There are objectively rational reasons why women should have optional access to male-free spaces. There no objectively rational reasons for the converse. (That said, I’m all for making all such restricted spaces as rare as possible. Any structural division, no matter how well intended, has a cost to society.)
        6y ago
wernercd 6y ago
It's sad that race is being blamed by those claiming to be against racism. My benefits, as said before, are being American - and I embrace those benefits. Nothing to be ashamed of. "life on the other side" I refuse to treat others as less because of their skin color. You might be racist but I'm not. I'm surrounded by successful people of all color (and sexs, religions, lifestyles, etc) who don't cry victimhood. You will continue to be either a victim or treating "POC" as victims who aren't smart enough or good enough - IE treating people different based on their skin color. (IE: Liberals talk down to POC because they look down on them. You might want to check YOUR "priviledge" and how you treat others - https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/30/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-black-people-new-study-contends/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/30/white-liber...) I refuse to treat minorities as if they aren't good enough... society shows that is a lie and, as I was raised, treating people differently based on skin color is racism. You may be okay being a racist... I refuse to be one.
- sjwright 6y ago
  Completely agree. Most racism in the USA can be explained by poverty—of which "POC" are disproportionately represented. America's systemic racism is better described as systemic poverty combined abuse of the poor.
  - cycrutchfield 6y ago
    >Most racism in the USA can be explained by poverty—of which "POC" are disproportionately represented And why do you think that is the case?
    - sjwright 6y ago
      Historical racism, especially slavery.
      - cycrutchfield 6y ago
        Slavery ended 160 years ago. Other countries that practiced slavery don’t have as bad of problems as the US does now in terms of racial inequality. You say historical racism, but what makes you think that it is only historical?
bumby 6y ago
I think one negative is that most of the debates about privilege are almost uniformly centered around gender and race. I.e., the features we can easily and quickly distinguish. (Ironically, the same reason why discrimination on those grounds is so pervasive). I can’t look at you and tell if you grew up the child of a surgeon or a cashier. Or in a loving home or abusive one. With a trust fund or encumbered with debt. But I can make a fairly accurate guess at your gender or race. What I think isn’t always articulated well is that people don’t feel like the totality of privilege and hurdles are taken into account in these discussions. We over simply our mental models and discussions to race and gender as if that was the totality of our life story and people naturally push back on this. (Not saying you are doing this) It doesn’t mean privilege doesn’t exist, just that it’s rarely as simple a picture as one tends to find in public dialogue and that’s why it makes some bristle
flippinburgers 6y ago
Undoing the damage done by the war on drugs and reevaluating the prison system would go a long way to equalize the playing field, if we really must get side-tracked by racially charged arguments. The real problem with America is poverty. We need to help all impoverished people. All of them.
athms 6y ago
You must mean the privilege of being beaten by my father from the age of three after he came back from Vietnam. Or, the emotional abuse my mother handed out because she got pregnant in high school and blamed me for ruining her future? Or, could it be the privilege of being thrown out of the house after high school with the clothes on my back and $300 in my wallet. Maybe it was being taken advantage of the landlord that took my money for a room in his house, only to slip into the room at night to molest me, then throw me out after brushing off his advances. It must be all that privilege of being homeless, bathing out of a toilet bowl in a public bathroom. But of course, I am a white male, so all misfortune in my life must be my own damn fault.
- katbyte 6y ago
  Your experience does not invalidate systemic racism.
  - bumby 6y ago
    You are right, but many feel that casting all into overly broad categories of privilege does invalidate their personal experience whether that was the intended aim or not
  - athms 6y ago
    Racism is discrimination of a different race based on the belief that your own race is superior. Systemic racism doesn't exist in the United States. There are racists in the United States, but that doesn't mean institutions are inherently racist. Also, racial stereotyping isn't necessarily based on racism and not all bigots are racists. You can make an argument for systemic discrimination, but not on racial superiority.
  - wernercd 6y ago
    made up words like "systemic racism" doesn't make those terms real. Nor does a party voting for Biden and Harris - creators of "systemically racist" laws and corrupt DAs that used those laws to jail innocent black men - have any moral position to talk about such made up words and expect to be taken seriously.

hunter2_ 6y ago

Even if you're right on average (this is not establishing a position on whether that's the case, but hypothetically if you are), there are exceptions. Not recognizing exceptions is an issue even in this scenario. There are places where being white isn't advantageous, not only places one may travel to, but where one calls home.

czbond 6y ago

People focus on the white privileged males.... ignoring that the U.S. is full of uneducated, broke, white males with little going for them. The country is like 70% white... so of course on a numerical basis you're going to come across more well to do whites than other races. But as a white male - the U.S. did repress the Japanese, American Indian, Muslim, Black, Jewish, Hispanic etc in large swaths, and numerous other minority races in localized areas.

wernercd 6y ago
and, around the world, those groups repress others. It's almost as if it's a human condition not limited to "white". As a white male, I live in a country where I'm surrounded by successful people of all stripes - color, race, ethnicity, sexuality, etc, etc, etc. Do we have a perfect history as a country? no... but we also provide opportunity to all - and we have POC in EVERY level of society. From cops to Presidents.
- cycrutchfield 6y ago
  TIL that electing Barack Obama ended racism in America
  - wernercd 6y ago
    TIL that I said something I never said... (Hint: I never said Obama ended racism... in fact, I wouldn't say that because his policies and his party have made racism WORSE with their identity politics and making everything about race.)
    - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
      Which Obama policies made everything about race? I totally missed that when he was president.
- czbond 6y ago
  Absolutely - fully agree.

throwawayboise 6y ago

Granting that this privilege exists, why is that seen as something to be taken away, rather than expanded and guaranteed to everyone?

krapp 6y ago
Those are just two ways to describe the same thing. It is impossible to grant equal privilege to everyone else without dismantling the systems of white privilege which are designed to prevent that from happening, and doing so would by definition remove privilege from white people.
- sjwright 6y ago
  You can dismantle privilege by tearing down existing systems or by building greater inclusivity into them. "Dismantling the systems of white privilege" is too vague to disambiguate this semantic dispute. By analogy, you can force male-only clubs to close and you can force male-only clubs to be inviting to women. Either action would dismantle the systems of male privilege.
  - klipt 6y ago
    Ironically we've already been doing this for so long that at this point there are way more female only clubs/universities/organizations than there are male only. Even Boy Scouts is now just Scouts and accepts everyone, but Girl Scouts is still girls only.
    - sjwright 6y ago
      Indeed, though in some instances that’s as it should be. There are objectively rational reasons why women should have optional access to male-free spaces. There no objectively rational reasons for the converse. (That said, I’m all for making all such restricted spaces as rare as possible. Any structural division, no matter how well intended, has a cost to society.)
      - 6y ago

wernercd 6y ago

It's sad that race is being blamed by those claiming to be against racism. My benefits, as said before, are being American - and I embrace those benefits. Nothing to be ashamed of. "life on the other side" I refuse to treat others as less because of their skin color. You might be racist but I'm not. I'm surrounded by successful people of all color (and sexs, religions, lifestyles, etc) who don't cry victimhood. You will continue to be either a victim or treating "POC" as victims who aren't smart enough or good enough - IE treating people different based on their skin color. (IE: Liberals talk down to POC because they look down on them. You might want to check YOUR "priviledge" and how you treat others - https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/30/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-black-people-new-study-contends/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/30/white-liber...) I refuse to treat minorities as if they aren't good enough... society shows that is a lie and, as I was raised, treating people differently based on skin color is racism. You may be okay being a racist... I refuse to be one.

sjwright 6y ago
Completely agree. Most racism in the USA can be explained by poverty—of which "POC" are disproportionately represented. America's systemic racism is better described as systemic poverty combined abuse of the poor.
- cycrutchfield 6y ago
  >Most racism in the USA can be explained by poverty—of which "POC" are disproportionately represented And why do you think that is the case?
  - sjwright 6y ago
    Historical racism, especially slavery.
    - cycrutchfield 6y ago
      Slavery ended 160 years ago. Other countries that practiced slavery don’t have as bad of problems as the US does now in terms of racial inequality. You say historical racism, but what makes you think that it is only historical?

bumby 6y ago

I think one negative is that most of the debates about privilege are almost uniformly centered around gender and race. I.e., the features we can easily and quickly distinguish. (Ironically, the same reason why discrimination on those grounds is so pervasive). I can’t look at you and tell if you grew up the child of a surgeon or a cashier. Or in a loving home or abusive one. With a trust fund or encumbered with debt. But I can make a fairly accurate guess at your gender or race. What I think isn’t always articulated well is that people don’t feel like the totality of privilege and hurdles are taken into account in these discussions. We over simply our mental models and discussions to race and gender as if that was the totality of our life story and people naturally push back on this. (Not saying you are doing this) It doesn’t mean privilege doesn’t exist, just that it’s rarely as simple a picture as one tends to find in public dialogue and that’s why it makes some bristle

flippinburgers 6y ago

Undoing the damage done by the war on drugs and reevaluating the prison system would go a long way to equalize the playing field, if we really must get side-tracked by racially charged arguments. The real problem with America is poverty. We need to help all impoverished people. All of them.

athms 6y ago

You must mean the privilege of being beaten by my father from the age of three after he came back from Vietnam. Or, the emotional abuse my mother handed out because she got pregnant in high school and blamed me for ruining her future? Or, could it be the privilege of being thrown out of the house after high school with the clothes on my back and $300 in my wallet. Maybe it was being taken advantage of the landlord that took my money for a room in his house, only to slip into the room at night to molest me, then throw me out after brushing off his advances. It must be all that privilege of being homeless, bathing out of a toilet bowl in a public bathroom. But of course, I am a white male, so all misfortune in my life must be my own damn fault.

katbyte 6y ago
Your experience does not invalidate systemic racism.
- bumby 6y ago
  You are right, but many feel that casting all into overly broad categories of privilege does invalidate their personal experience whether that was the intended aim or not
- athms 6y ago
  Racism is discrimination of a different race based on the belief that your own race is superior. Systemic racism doesn't exist in the United States. There are racists in the United States, but that doesn't mean institutions are inherently racist. Also, racial stereotyping isn't necessarily based on racism and not all bigots are racists. You can make an argument for systemic discrimination, but not on racial superiority.
- wernercd 6y ago
  made up words like "systemic racism" doesn't make those terms real. Nor does a party voting for Biden and Harris - creators of "systemically racist" laws and corrupt DAs that used those laws to jail innocent black men - have any moral position to talk about such made up words and expect to be taken seriously.