7 ms·

I'm an upper middle class white guy. I have no "privilege's" except being blamed for stuff by my skin color by those who claim to be fighting racism. I have wh

I'm an upper middle class white guy. I have no "privilege's" except being blamed for stuff by my skin color by those who claim to be fighting racism. I have what's called "results" of hard work, good decisions and a healthy dose of luck to go from the poor kid of a single mother on government cheese and living on family couches to making a good salary at a good job. I earned my place - I wasn't "privileged" into it. The only REAL privilege I have is being an American - and that's color blind. The top 1% globally make 30k/year and that's the vast majority of Americans. And I'm not ashamed of that... I'm proud of it - as I should be. Any attempts to place race as a factor is done by what we love to call... racists.

cycrutchfield 6y ago
It's sad that you have a blind spot as to the benefits that have been afforded to you by society that others do not have. And, of course, since you cannot experience what life is like on the other side, you will continue to have this blind spot and deny that you have it.
- hunter2_ 6y ago
  Even if you're right on average (this is not establishing a position on whether that's the case, but hypothetically if you are), there are exceptions. Not recognizing exceptions is an issue even in this scenario. There are places where being white isn't advantageous, not only places one may travel to, but where one calls home.
- czbond 6y ago
  People focus on the white privileged males.... ignoring that the U.S. is full of uneducated, broke, white males with little going for them. The country is like 70% white... so of course on a numerical basis you're going to come across more well to do whites than other races. But as a white male - the U.S. did repress the Japanese, American Indian, Muslim, Black, Jewish, Hispanic etc in large swaths, and numerous other minority races in localized areas.
  - wernercd 6y ago
    and, around the world, those groups repress others. It's almost as if it's a human condition not limited to "white". As a white male, I live in a country where I'm surrounded by successful people of all stripes - color, race, ethnicity, sexuality, etc, etc, etc. Do we have a perfect history as a country? no... but we also provide opportunity to all - and we have POC in EVERY level of society. From cops to Presidents.
    - cycrutchfield 6y ago
      TIL that electing Barack Obama ended racism in America
      - wernercd 6y ago
        TIL that I said something I never said... (Hint: I never said Obama ended racism... in fact, I wouldn't say that because his policies and his party have made racism WORSE with their identity politics and making everything about race.)
        amanaplanacanal 6y ago
        Which Obama policies made everything about race? I totally missed that when he was president.
    - czbond 6y ago
      Absolutely - fully agree.
- throwawayboise 6y ago
  Granting that this privilege exists, why is that seen as something to be taken away, rather than expanded and guaranteed to everyone?
  - krapp 6y ago
    Those are just two ways to describe the same thing. It is impossible to grant equal privilege to everyone else without dismantling the systems of white privilege which are designed to prevent that from happening, and doing so would by definition remove privilege from white people.
    - sjwright 6y ago
      You can dismantle privilege by tearing down existing systems or by building greater inclusivity into them. "Dismantling the systems of white privilege" is too vague to disambiguate this semantic dispute. By analogy, you can force male-only clubs to close and you can force male-only clubs to be inviting to women. Either action would dismantle the systems of male privilege.
      - klipt 6y ago
        Ironically we've already been doing this for so long that at this point there are way more female only clubs/universities/organizations than there are male only. Even Boy Scouts is now just Scouts and accepts everyone, but Girl Scouts is still girls only.
        sjwright 6y ago
        Indeed, though in some instances that’s as it should be. There are objectively rational reasons why women should have optional access to male-free spaces. There no objectively rational reasons for the converse. (That said, I’m all for making all such restricted spaces as rare as possible. Any structural division, no matter how well intended, has a cost to society.)
        6y ago
- wernercd 6y ago
  It's sad that race is being blamed by those claiming to be against racism. My benefits, as said before, are being American - and I embrace those benefits. Nothing to be ashamed of. "life on the other side" I refuse to treat others as less because of their skin color. You might be racist but I'm not. I'm surrounded by successful people of all color (and sexs, religions, lifestyles, etc) who don't cry victimhood. You will continue to be either a victim or treating "POC" as victims who aren't smart enough or good enough - IE treating people different based on their skin color. (IE: Liberals talk down to POC because they look down on them. You might want to check YOUR "priviledge" and how you treat others - https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/30/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-black-people-new-study-contends/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/30/white-liber...) I refuse to treat minorities as if they aren't good enough... society shows that is a lie and, as I was raised, treating people differently based on skin color is racism. You may be okay being a racist... I refuse to be one.
  - sjwright 6y ago
    Completely agree. Most racism in the USA can be explained by poverty—of which "POC" are disproportionately represented. America's systemic racism is better described as systemic poverty combined abuse of the poor.
    - cycrutchfield 6y ago
      >Most racism in the USA can be explained by poverty—of which "POC" are disproportionately represented And why do you think that is the case?
      - sjwright 6y ago
        Historical racism, especially slavery.
        cycrutchfield 6y ago
        Slavery ended 160 years ago. Other countries that practiced slavery don’t have as bad of problems as the US does now in terms of racial inequality. You say historical racism, but what makes you think that it is only historical?
- bumby 6y ago
  I think one negative is that most of the debates about privilege are almost uniformly centered around gender and race. I.e., the features we can easily and quickly distinguish. (Ironically, the same reason why discrimination on those grounds is so pervasive). I can’t look at you and tell if you grew up the child of a surgeon or a cashier. Or in a loving home or abusive one. With a trust fund or encumbered with debt. But I can make a fairly accurate guess at your gender or race. What I think isn’t always articulated well is that people don’t feel like the totality of privilege and hurdles are taken into account in these discussions. We over simply our mental models and discussions to race and gender as if that was the totality of our life story and people naturally push back on this. (Not saying you are doing this) It doesn’t mean privilege doesn’t exist, just that it’s rarely as simple a picture as one tends to find in public dialogue and that’s why it makes some bristle
- flippinburgers 6y ago
  Undoing the damage done by the war on drugs and reevaluating the prison system would go a long way to equalize the playing field, if we really must get side-tracked by racially charged arguments. The real problem with America is poverty. We need to help all impoverished people. All of them.
- athms 6y ago
  You must mean the privilege of being beaten by my father from the age of three after he came back from Vietnam. Or, the emotional abuse my mother handed out because she got pregnant in high school and blamed me for ruining her future? Or, could it be the privilege of being thrown out of the house after high school with the clothes on my back and $300 in my wallet. Maybe it was being taken advantage of the landlord that took my money for a room in his house, only to slip into the room at night to molest me, then throw me out after brushing off his advances. It must be all that privilege of being homeless, bathing out of a toilet bowl in a public bathroom. But of course, I am a white male, so all misfortune in my life must be my own damn fault.
  - katbyte 6y ago
    Your experience does not invalidate systemic racism.
    - bumby 6y ago
      You are right, but many feel that casting all into overly broad categories of privilege does invalidate their personal experience whether that was the intended aim or not
    - athms 6y ago
      Racism is discrimination of a different race based on the belief that your own race is superior. Systemic racism doesn't exist in the United States. There are racists in the United States, but that doesn't mean institutions are inherently racist. Also, racial stereotyping isn't necessarily based on racism and not all bigots are racists. You can make an argument for systemic discrimination, but not on racial superiority.
    - wernercd 6y ago
      made up words like "systemic racism" doesn't make those terms real. Nor does a party voting for Biden and Harris - creators of "systemically racist" laws and corrupt DAs that used those laws to jail innocent black men - have any moral position to talk about such made up words and expect to be taken seriously.
socialdemocrat 6y ago
I don’t like the term myself, but I think it is fair to acknowledge that plenty of people are disadvantaged due to their skin color, race, religion etc. For instance I know I have more opportunities because I am white, belonging to western culture and culturally Christian (I am an atheist by celebrate Christmas and all that), than I would have had if I was black or muslim while living in the West. But this is not uniform. My opportunities if I looked Asian would likely be very similar to looking white. It isn’t a mystery that a culture favors people looking like themselves. Had I grown up in Japan I am sure I would have been at a disadvantage for not looking Japanese.
- babesh 6y ago
  Disadvantage is due to far more than skin color, race, religion, etc... I think there are wide swaths of 'white' America that are disadvantaged as well.
  - socialdemocrat 6y ago
    Born into poverty is also a disadvantage. Having a handicap is a disadvantage. And I recognize that otherwise I would not be a social democrat. And that is why I advocate social democratic policies such as reducing inequality. Giving everybody equal access to health care, education etc. But the point is we should recognize the disadvantage somebody faces and seek to help rather than belittle it by saying “other people have problems too”
- babesh 6y ago
  Stop the white adjacent bullshit. There is a substantial Asian underclass. Your opportunities if you looked Asian would only be very similar to whites if you were upper middle class Asian. The difference is that some of those lower and lower middle class Asians who make it go up through the educational system (work hard and study culture). That is why so many Asians defend magnet schools. How do you think many of them rose up from poverty? The lower and lower middle class Asians don’t initially have the same networking opportunities or social access that whites do. Also whites from disadvantaged backgrounds often face different difficulties.
cycomanic 6y ago
I think this is quite a common reaction for someone white coming from low socioeconomic backgrounds and making it to a good wealth. This is quite an achievement, more than 40% of children born in the lowest wealth quartile stay there. I believe it stems from the feeling that the talk of white privilege is taking something away from this achievement, so there is a counter reaction. To that I say that yes breaking the circle of poverty is a great achievement, but acknowledging that others have factors that make it even more difficult does not take away from this achievement.

cycrutchfield 6y ago

It's sad that you have a blind spot as to the benefits that have been afforded to you by society that others do not have. And, of course, since you cannot experience what life is like on the other side, you will continue to have this blind spot and deny that you have it.

hunter2_ 6y ago
Even if you're right on average (this is not establishing a position on whether that's the case, but hypothetically if you are), there are exceptions. Not recognizing exceptions is an issue even in this scenario. There are places where being white isn't advantageous, not only places one may travel to, but where one calls home.
czbond 6y ago
People focus on the white privileged males.... ignoring that the U.S. is full of uneducated, broke, white males with little going for them. The country is like 70% white... so of course on a numerical basis you're going to come across more well to do whites than other races. But as a white male - the U.S. did repress the Japanese, American Indian, Muslim, Black, Jewish, Hispanic etc in large swaths, and numerous other minority races in localized areas.
- wernercd 6y ago
  and, around the world, those groups repress others. It's almost as if it's a human condition not limited to "white". As a white male, I live in a country where I'm surrounded by successful people of all stripes - color, race, ethnicity, sexuality, etc, etc, etc. Do we have a perfect history as a country? no... but we also provide opportunity to all - and we have POC in EVERY level of society. From cops to Presidents.
  - cycrutchfield 6y ago
    TIL that electing Barack Obama ended racism in America
    - wernercd 6y ago
      TIL that I said something I never said... (Hint: I never said Obama ended racism... in fact, I wouldn't say that because his policies and his party have made racism WORSE with their identity politics and making everything about race.)
      - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
        Which Obama policies made everything about race? I totally missed that when he was president.
  - czbond 6y ago
    Absolutely - fully agree.
throwawayboise 6y ago
Granting that this privilege exists, why is that seen as something to be taken away, rather than expanded and guaranteed to everyone?
- krapp 6y ago
  Those are just two ways to describe the same thing. It is impossible to grant equal privilege to everyone else without dismantling the systems of white privilege which are designed to prevent that from happening, and doing so would by definition remove privilege from white people.
  - sjwright 6y ago
    You can dismantle privilege by tearing down existing systems or by building greater inclusivity into them. "Dismantling the systems of white privilege" is too vague to disambiguate this semantic dispute. By analogy, you can force male-only clubs to close and you can force male-only clubs to be inviting to women. Either action would dismantle the systems of male privilege.
    - klipt 6y ago
      Ironically we've already been doing this for so long that at this point there are way more female only clubs/universities/organizations than there are male only. Even Boy Scouts is now just Scouts and accepts everyone, but Girl Scouts is still girls only.
      - sjwright 6y ago
        Indeed, though in some instances that’s as it should be. There are objectively rational reasons why women should have optional access to male-free spaces. There no objectively rational reasons for the converse. (That said, I’m all for making all such restricted spaces as rare as possible. Any structural division, no matter how well intended, has a cost to society.)
        6y ago
wernercd 6y ago
It's sad that race is being blamed by those claiming to be against racism. My benefits, as said before, are being American - and I embrace those benefits. Nothing to be ashamed of. "life on the other side" I refuse to treat others as less because of their skin color. You might be racist but I'm not. I'm surrounded by successful people of all color (and sexs, religions, lifestyles, etc) who don't cry victimhood. You will continue to be either a victim or treating "POC" as victims who aren't smart enough or good enough - IE treating people different based on their skin color. (IE: Liberals talk down to POC because they look down on them. You might want to check YOUR "priviledge" and how you treat others - https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/30/white-liberals-dumb-themselves-down-when-they-speak-black-people-new-study-contends/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/30/white-liber...) I refuse to treat minorities as if they aren't good enough... society shows that is a lie and, as I was raised, treating people differently based on skin color is racism. You may be okay being a racist... I refuse to be one.
- sjwright 6y ago
  Completely agree. Most racism in the USA can be explained by poverty—of which "POC" are disproportionately represented. America's systemic racism is better described as systemic poverty combined abuse of the poor.
  - cycrutchfield 6y ago
    >Most racism in the USA can be explained by poverty—of which "POC" are disproportionately represented And why do you think that is the case?
    - sjwright 6y ago
      Historical racism, especially slavery.
      - cycrutchfield 6y ago
        Slavery ended 160 years ago. Other countries that practiced slavery don’t have as bad of problems as the US does now in terms of racial inequality. You say historical racism, but what makes you think that it is only historical?
bumby 6y ago
I think one negative is that most of the debates about privilege are almost uniformly centered around gender and race. I.e., the features we can easily and quickly distinguish. (Ironically, the same reason why discrimination on those grounds is so pervasive). I can’t look at you and tell if you grew up the child of a surgeon or a cashier. Or in a loving home or abusive one. With a trust fund or encumbered with debt. But I can make a fairly accurate guess at your gender or race. What I think isn’t always articulated well is that people don’t feel like the totality of privilege and hurdles are taken into account in these discussions. We over simply our mental models and discussions to race and gender as if that was the totality of our life story and people naturally push back on this. (Not saying you are doing this) It doesn’t mean privilege doesn’t exist, just that it’s rarely as simple a picture as one tends to find in public dialogue and that’s why it makes some bristle
flippinburgers 6y ago
Undoing the damage done by the war on drugs and reevaluating the prison system would go a long way to equalize the playing field, if we really must get side-tracked by racially charged arguments. The real problem with America is poverty. We need to help all impoverished people. All of them.
athms 6y ago
You must mean the privilege of being beaten by my father from the age of three after he came back from Vietnam. Or, the emotional abuse my mother handed out because she got pregnant in high school and blamed me for ruining her future? Or, could it be the privilege of being thrown out of the house after high school with the clothes on my back and $300 in my wallet. Maybe it was being taken advantage of the landlord that took my money for a room in his house, only to slip into the room at night to molest me, then throw me out after brushing off his advances. It must be all that privilege of being homeless, bathing out of a toilet bowl in a public bathroom. But of course, I am a white male, so all misfortune in my life must be my own damn fault.
- katbyte 6y ago
  Your experience does not invalidate systemic racism.
  - bumby 6y ago
    You are right, but many feel that casting all into overly broad categories of privilege does invalidate their personal experience whether that was the intended aim or not
  - athms 6y ago
    Racism is discrimination of a different race based on the belief that your own race is superior. Systemic racism doesn't exist in the United States. There are racists in the United States, but that doesn't mean institutions are inherently racist. Also, racial stereotyping isn't necessarily based on racism and not all bigots are racists. You can make an argument for systemic discrimination, but not on racial superiority.
  - wernercd 6y ago
    made up words like "systemic racism" doesn't make those terms real. Nor does a party voting for Biden and Harris - creators of "systemically racist" laws and corrupt DAs that used those laws to jail innocent black men - have any moral position to talk about such made up words and expect to be taken seriously.

socialdemocrat 6y ago

I don’t like the term myself, but I think it is fair to acknowledge that plenty of people are disadvantaged due to their skin color, race, religion etc. For instance I know I have more opportunities because I am white, belonging to western culture and culturally Christian (I am an atheist by celebrate Christmas and all that), than I would have had if I was black or muslim while living in the West. But this is not uniform. My opportunities if I looked Asian would likely be very similar to looking white. It isn’t a mystery that a culture favors people looking like themselves. Had I grown up in Japan I am sure I would have been at a disadvantage for not looking Japanese.

babesh 6y ago
Disadvantage is due to far more than skin color, race, religion, etc... I think there are wide swaths of 'white' America that are disadvantaged as well.
- socialdemocrat 6y ago
  Born into poverty is also a disadvantage. Having a handicap is a disadvantage. And I recognize that otherwise I would not be a social democrat. And that is why I advocate social democratic policies such as reducing inequality. Giving everybody equal access to health care, education etc. But the point is we should recognize the disadvantage somebody faces and seek to help rather than belittle it by saying “other people have problems too”
babesh 6y ago
Stop the white adjacent bullshit. There is a substantial Asian underclass. Your opportunities if you looked Asian would only be very similar to whites if you were upper middle class Asian. The difference is that some of those lower and lower middle class Asians who make it go up through the educational system (work hard and study culture). That is why so many Asians defend magnet schools. How do you think many of them rose up from poverty? The lower and lower middle class Asians don’t initially have the same networking opportunities or social access that whites do. Also whites from disadvantaged backgrounds often face different difficulties.

cycomanic 6y ago

I think this is quite a common reaction for someone white coming from low socioeconomic backgrounds and making it to a good wealth. This is quite an achievement, more than 40% of children born in the lowest wealth quartile stay there. I believe it stems from the feeling that the talk of white privilege is taking something away from this achievement, so there is a counter reaction. To that I say that yes breaking the circle of poverty is a great achievement, but acknowledging that others have factors that make it even more difficult does not take away from this achievement.