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> A lot of hyperbolic reporting but there’s a ton of off-peak excess overnight electricity capacity. Looking at California's demand-profile it appears almost f

> A lot of hyperbolic reporting but there’s a ton of off-peak excess overnight electricity capacity. Looking at California's demand-profile it appears almost flat throughout the day (page 3 http://web.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/Articles/I/CombiningRenew/HosteFinalDraft http://web.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/Articles/I/Combi...). I dont see an obvious reaon why other cities would follow a different profile, so no I dont think that assumption is correct. The problem is indeed cost, but more the cost of storing the energy created by green renwables to be used when the wind isnt blowing or the sun isnt shining. If anything electricity will become much more expensive and become cheaper not overnight but instead when the weather is great. Indeed this is whats happening in Germany as a result of their energiewende program

appleiigs 6y ago
> I dont see an obvious reaon why other cities would follow a different profile, so no I dont think that assumption is correct A flat demand profile is definitely not normal. Do i really need to explain that the rest of the country doesn’t have same weather as California...
- aseerdbnarng 6y ago
  - California used as example due to high EV adoption - Here is a link containing the UK's daily load factor https://gridwatch.co.uk/ https://gridwatch.co.uk/ Its quite flat.
Retric 6y ago
That’s a long way from a flat curve. 30GW to 50GW is a huge swing in demand.
- aseerdbnarng 6y ago
  That was only in July and only due to the high AC required. Are you planning on recharging only 1 month of the year? How good are your batteries and where can i get them?
  - ndonnellan 6y ago
    Summer months in most of the southern US are extremely hot (in Austin, 4-5 months of the year could have temps above 100F), so for example here is CA in August (see graph in article for demand): https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/how-californias-shift-from-natural-gas-to-solar-is-playing-a-role-in-rolling-blackouts https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/how-californias... Utilities can't design just for the average month, but the worst ones, and the worst hours of the worst days. Building new peak demand (peaker) plants is very expensive and most consumers probably don't see the actual market prices during those times. Shifting load by a very small percent could result in a decent cost savings and/or avoid building new capacity.
    - kevan 6y ago
      Smart grid is a buzzword but this is exactly what it's good for. Spreading peak usage out. For example, today I get a discount on my electric because my power company has the option to turn my AC off for X time during hot days to lower the grid's peak load. The tech is already here and a lot of EV charging will fit well into that model, especially commuters that don't need their whole range every day. Plenty of people would opt in to "at least one full charge every 3 days" type of plans.
  - Retric 6y ago
    In terms of capacity planning it’s the peak annual demand that’s critical not the peak seasonal demand. January is effectively a minimum of 24GW vs a capacity for 50 GW. In practice it’s a little more complex as maintenance cycles for example are lined based on seasonal demand, but that’s offset by much higher transmission losses when the temperatures are highest.
    - aseerdbnarng 6y ago
      But California does not have a 50gw generating capacity. It imports electricity during the summer months to make up the load factor difference. So again I’m not sure how you’re planning on recharging millions of vehicles without increasing the overall load factor if you’re relying on vanishingly small gaps in the load factor demand throughout the day

appleiigs 6y ago

> I dont see an obvious reaon why other cities would follow a different profile, so no I dont think that assumption is correct A flat demand profile is definitely not normal. Do i really need to explain that the rest of the country doesn’t have same weather as California...

aseerdbnarng 6y ago
- California used as example due to high EV adoption - Here is a link containing the UK's daily load factor https://gridwatch.co.uk/ https://gridwatch.co.uk/ Its quite flat.

Retric 6y ago

That’s a long way from a flat curve. 30GW to 50GW is a huge swing in demand.

aseerdbnarng 6y ago
That was only in July and only due to the high AC required. Are you planning on recharging only 1 month of the year? How good are your batteries and where can i get them?
- ndonnellan 6y ago
  Summer months in most of the southern US are extremely hot (in Austin, 4-5 months of the year could have temps above 100F), so for example here is CA in August (see graph in article for demand): https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/how-californias-shift-from-natural-gas-to-solar-is-playing-a-role-in-rolling-blackouts https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/how-californias... Utilities can't design just for the average month, but the worst ones, and the worst hours of the worst days. Building new peak demand (peaker) plants is very expensive and most consumers probably don't see the actual market prices during those times. Shifting load by a very small percent could result in a decent cost savings and/or avoid building new capacity.
  - kevan 6y ago
    Smart grid is a buzzword but this is exactly what it's good for. Spreading peak usage out. For example, today I get a discount on my electric because my power company has the option to turn my AC off for X time during hot days to lower the grid's peak load. The tech is already here and a lot of EV charging will fit well into that model, especially commuters that don't need their whole range every day. Plenty of people would opt in to "at least one full charge every 3 days" type of plans.
- Retric 6y ago
  In terms of capacity planning it’s the peak annual demand that’s critical not the peak seasonal demand. January is effectively a minimum of 24GW vs a capacity for 50 GW. In practice it’s a little more complex as maintenance cycles for example are lined based on seasonal demand, but that’s offset by much higher transmission losses when the temperatures are highest.
  - aseerdbnarng 6y ago
    But California does not have a 50gw generating capacity. It imports electricity during the summer months to make up the load factor difference. So again I’m not sure how you’re planning on recharging millions of vehicles without increasing the overall load factor if you’re relying on vanishingly small gaps in the load factor demand throughout the day