6 ms·

I am all for peaceful protests, the constitution has given every citizen the right to protest. But not at the cost of damage to the public property, rioting an

by 0xFFFE 6y ago

I am all for peaceful protests, the constitution has given every citizen the right to protest. But not at the cost of damage to the public property, rioting and violence. Jfyi, there is already case in supreme court of India to hear the grievances that they may have. But some political leaders are taking advantage of the situation to incite violence. Please note, cops are human beings too, they have been asked not to use lethal force against the protestors.

middleclick 6y ago
> I am all for peaceful protests, the constitution has given every citizen the right to protest They have been peaceful protesting for literally months now. One bad incident does not mean anything and there is a lot of information about how the government goons infiltrated the protests. If you are all for peaceful protests, you wouldn't single out one single incident but that's exactly what you are doing and I think it's malicious. Which you are free to do, but please don't pretend otherwise.
- 0xFFFE 6y ago
  > One bad incident does not mean anything Is it really? There are literally 100s of youtube videos of protesters damaging public property and attacking Police. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqiwIbUzPyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqiwIbUzPyo Here is a the Guardian link. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/26/violent-clashes-as-indian-farmers-storm-delhis-red-fort https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/26/violent-clashe... Times now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1kC7RPEniM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1kC7RPEniM > there is a lot of information about how the government goons infiltrated the protests. Can you cite a source? EDIT: Formatting
  - middleclick 6y ago
    Did you read your own links? > Samyukta Kisan Morcha, an umbrella organisation representing more than 40 farmers’ unions, condemned those who had taken part in the clashes and said that “anti-social elements had infiltrated the otherwise peaceful movement”. The organizers clearly condemned the violence. What else should they do? Repeating what you conveniently ignored: one bad incident does not override months of completely peaceful protests, acknowledged by residents of the areas where they were protesting. And yet, you bring up just that one thing, which is very much in line with the government propaganda. The Republic link was the icing on the cake. Like I said, you are free to believe what you want but painting yourself as pro freedom of protests while ignoring the fact that they have been peaceful for months and singling out this one thing says a lot about your bias. Source: https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/farmers-storm-india-s-red-fort-by-the-thousands-1.5282103 https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/farmers-storm-india-s-red-fort-... > The farmers have been staging largely peaceful protests for nearly two months
    - 0xFFFE 6y ago
      > Repeating what you conveniently ignored: one bad incident does not override months of completely peaceful protests I am not the one conveniently forgetting violence at the Red fort. Let me ask you, why even protest when the Supreme court is hearing the case and Govt has agreed to put the law on hold for 1.5 years. Why violence & blocking highways? Why not take it up with Supreme Court?
      - middleclick 6y ago
        The Supreme Court of India is going to listen to the farmers? The same Supreme Court that asked why and I quote, "why old people and women are kept in the protests" as if thousands of old farmers were paid money and brought in to the protests? I repeat: protesting is a fundamental right. Farmers have been protesting peacefully for months. One bad incident is not reflective of the otherwise largely peaceful protests. You are ignoring this line. https://www.newslaundry.com/2021/01/14/sorry-this-isnt-a-mans-protest-women-farmers-on-sc-wanting-them-to-go-home https://www.newslaundry.com/2021/01/14/sorry-this-isnt-a-man... You can drop the facade at this stage and stop wasting everyone's time. At least have the audacity to be genuine of your beliefs. To not be so is cowardly.
        sbmthakur 6y ago
        Why shouldn't the SC ask that question? They are not issuing a diktat. It's a large group and a certain degree of coercion, even if small, is likely involved. It's only now that it's coming out in open. https://www.freepressjournal.in/viral/protest-or-pay-a-fine-this-punjab-village-is-rallying-support-for-farmers-agitation-in-an-unusual-way https://www.freepressjournal.in/viral/protest-or-pay-a-fine-... We are talking about areas around Delhi where women and children have much less liberty when compared to other regions of India.
        middleclick 6y ago
        Why should they? If they had done basic research, they wouldn't even have come up something as asinine as this. Fact: women contribute to farm work as much as men in Punjab: https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/in-punjab-women-take-charge-of-farms-as-menfolk-take-part-in-protests-at-delhi-border/story-nPFLTQPiBNpEYgeNQFNiPJ.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/in-punjab-women-take-c.... So women are a part of the protest because they are also affected by this. Why even bring this up at all? > We are talking about areas around Delhi where women and children have much less liberty when compared to other regions of India. The fact that you wrote this shows how little you know about this. The majority of the farmers protesting are Punjabi farmers. Do you know that in a Punjabi household, women participate in the work equally? This is not like UP or Bihar. Even in religious ceremonies, women participate equally. Don't bring up your own discriminatory customs and think they apply to every other community in India. Coming back to the Supreme Court, this is the same court that has got its tiny feelings upset over a political satire: https://scroll.in/latest/985456/contempt-case-against-rachita-taneja-criticism-of-courts-growing-everybody-is-doing-it-says-sc https://scroll.in/latest/985456/contempt-case-against-rachit... Should I point out the relation between the ex Chief Justice and the ruling party? You are pretty terrible at this.
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  Do you have strong, proven evidence for infiltration? Otherwise this seems like the typical false flag conspiracy we always hear when protests turn violent. The reality is even those acting peacefully are providing cover for those acting violently among their ranks. They also often incite that violent fringe to action, and condone or overlook their actions. Silence is violence, right? And remaining silent on those using violence to achieve political goals - the very definition of terrorism - isn’t acceptable.
  - middleclick 6y ago
    Such things are typically reported by the media. One of the problems in India though is that the media is completely biased towards the government. The prime minister of the world's largest democracy has held exactly zero press conferences in 6-7 years. When he does, they are incredibly scripted where they ask him if he likes to eat mangoes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dUyQWcn1CA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dUyQWcn1CA). He also does a poor job of answering tough questions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAGAYL8dtic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAGAYL8dtic) so the media interviews he does give are more of a PR stunt for him where the "journalists" praise his qualities and ask him no hard questions. Coming back to your question: the farmers have clearly said they denounce the violence in more than one ways. The other thing that is leading more credence to this theory is how the police treated the people indulging in violence. Evidence from the ground shows that the police shook hands and were generally very respectful towards them. This suggests infiltration. More sources: https://thewire.in/agriculture/day-of-clashes-with-bjp-sponsored-goons-bolsters-farmers-resolve https://thewire.in/agriculture/day-of-clashes-with-bjp-spons...
didibus 6y ago
> I am all for peaceful protests [...] But not at the cost of damage to the public property, rioting and violence Which one is it? So I'm peacefully protesting... And then someone ELSE two street away from me breaks a window... Am I not allowed to peacefully protest anymore?
- 0xFFFE 6y ago
  IF you were a cop, how would you differentiate between the two in that chaos? Your first objective would be to bring the situation under control before more people get hurt or more property gets damaged. Just take a look at this video and tell me you will be able to differentiate. There are no "two" different streets here, just one big chaos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqiwIbUzPyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqiwIbUzPyo
AmericanChopper 6y ago
How do you feel about the revolutionary war? Or the Jacobite uprisings? Or the troubles? Or the French Resistance? Or the Yugoslav Partisans? I’m all for peaceful solutions too, but if you look through history you’ll find plenty of morally righteous violent resistance. In this case it seems inevitable to me. The aggrieved parties here mostly come from a place that was previously violently conquered by the Mughal Empire, then later violently won their independence to form the Sikh Empire, shortly after that they were violently conquered again by the British Raj. The British Raj was ousted by nonviolent resistance, but that’s an incredible anomaly in history, and was only really possible because the British had largely lost interest in holding the colony. The result was the partitioning of India, which worked out terribly for a lot of people. Especially the Punjabis, who’s state was cut in half and split between Islamic Pakistan, and Hindu India. Hindu Nationalism on the India side of the border has lead to decades of often violent oppression of minority group in India. Why would violent resistance not be a morally defensible response? I also find the international coverage of this issue quite funny. If you only read international sources you might come away with the impression that this conflict is just between “farmers” and the Indian government. If you read Indian sources you’re more likely to get the impression this is a separatist conflict between “Khalistani terrorists” and the Indian government.
- 0xFFFE 6y ago
  So if this not a protest against the farm bill, they should drop the facade then. > you’ll find plenty of morally righteous violent resistance. Sure, but we should have a sense of proportion here. Supreme court is hearing the case and the Govt has agreed to put the new law on hold for 1.5 years. Why not wait for Supreme court's judgement? How do you justify blocking highways for over 2 months causing great economic damage to your fellow countrymen, that too during COVID times when people are struggling to put the food on the table. I have read the bill and I am linking it here (this is Govt. Of India website). There is nothing there that can justify the violence we just witnessed. http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2020/222040.pdf http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2020/222040.pdf
  - AmericanChopper 6y ago

by 0xFFFE 6y ago

middleclick 6y ago

> I am all for peaceful protests, the constitution has given every citizen the right to protest They have been peaceful protesting for literally months now. One bad incident does not mean anything and there is a lot of information about how the government goons infiltrated the protests. If you are all for peaceful protests, you wouldn't single out one single incident but that's exactly what you are doing and I think it's malicious. Which you are free to do, but please don't pretend otherwise.

0xFFFE 6y ago
> One bad incident does not mean anything Is it really? There are literally 100s of youtube videos of protesters damaging public property and attacking Police. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqiwIbUzPyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqiwIbUzPyo Here is a the Guardian link. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/26/violent-clashes-as-indian-farmers-storm-delhis-red-fort https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/26/violent-clashe... Times now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1kC7RPEniM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1kC7RPEniM > there is a lot of information about how the government goons infiltrated the protests. Can you cite a source? EDIT: Formatting
- middleclick 6y ago
  Did you read your own links? > Samyukta Kisan Morcha, an umbrella organisation representing more than 40 farmers’ unions, condemned those who had taken part in the clashes and said that “anti-social elements had infiltrated the otherwise peaceful movement”. The organizers clearly condemned the violence. What else should they do? Repeating what you conveniently ignored: one bad incident does not override months of completely peaceful protests, acknowledged by residents of the areas where they were protesting. And yet, you bring up just that one thing, which is very much in line with the government propaganda. The Republic link was the icing on the cake. Like I said, you are free to believe what you want but painting yourself as pro freedom of protests while ignoring the fact that they have been peaceful for months and singling out this one thing says a lot about your bias. Source: https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/farmers-storm-india-s-red-fort-by-the-thousands-1.5282103 https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/farmers-storm-india-s-red-fort-... > The farmers have been staging largely peaceful protests for nearly two months
  - 0xFFFE 6y ago
    > Repeating what you conveniently ignored: one bad incident does not override months of completely peaceful protests I am not the one conveniently forgetting violence at the Red fort. Let me ask you, why even protest when the Supreme court is hearing the case and Govt has agreed to put the law on hold for 1.5 years. Why violence & blocking highways? Why not take it up with Supreme Court?
    - middleclick 6y ago
      The Supreme Court of India is going to listen to the farmers? The same Supreme Court that asked why and I quote, "why old people and women are kept in the protests" as if thousands of old farmers were paid money and brought in to the protests? I repeat: protesting is a fundamental right. Farmers have been protesting peacefully for months. One bad incident is not reflective of the otherwise largely peaceful protests. You are ignoring this line. https://www.newslaundry.com/2021/01/14/sorry-this-isnt-a-mans-protest-women-farmers-on-sc-wanting-them-to-go-home https://www.newslaundry.com/2021/01/14/sorry-this-isnt-a-man... You can drop the facade at this stage and stop wasting everyone's time. At least have the audacity to be genuine of your beliefs. To not be so is cowardly.
      - sbmthakur 6y ago
        Why shouldn't the SC ask that question? They are not issuing a diktat. It's a large group and a certain degree of coercion, even if small, is likely involved. It's only now that it's coming out in open. https://www.freepressjournal.in/viral/protest-or-pay-a-fine-this-punjab-village-is-rallying-support-for-farmers-agitation-in-an-unusual-way https://www.freepressjournal.in/viral/protest-or-pay-a-fine-... We are talking about areas around Delhi where women and children have much less liberty when compared to other regions of India.
        middleclick 6y ago
        Why should they? If they had done basic research, they wouldn't even have come up something as asinine as this. Fact: women contribute to farm work as much as men in Punjab: https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/in-punjab-women-take-charge-of-farms-as-menfolk-take-part-in-protests-at-delhi-border/story-nPFLTQPiBNpEYgeNQFNiPJ.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/in-punjab-women-take-c.... So women are a part of the protest because they are also affected by this. Why even bring this up at all? > We are talking about areas around Delhi where women and children have much less liberty when compared to other regions of India. The fact that you wrote this shows how little you know about this. The majority of the farmers protesting are Punjabi farmers. Do you know that in a Punjabi household, women participate in the work equally? This is not like UP or Bihar. Even in religious ceremonies, women participate equally. Don't bring up your own discriminatory customs and think they apply to every other community in India. Coming back to the Supreme Court, this is the same court that has got its tiny feelings upset over a political satire: https://scroll.in/latest/985456/contempt-case-against-rachita-taneja-criticism-of-courts-growing-everybody-is-doing-it-says-sc https://scroll.in/latest/985456/contempt-case-against-rachit... Should I point out the relation between the ex Chief Justice and the ruling party? You are pretty terrible at this.
throwawaysea 6y ago
Do you have strong, proven evidence for infiltration? Otherwise this seems like the typical false flag conspiracy we always hear when protests turn violent. The reality is even those acting peacefully are providing cover for those acting violently among their ranks. They also often incite that violent fringe to action, and condone or overlook their actions. Silence is violence, right? And remaining silent on those using violence to achieve political goals - the very definition of terrorism - isn’t acceptable.
- middleclick 6y ago
  Such things are typically reported by the media. One of the problems in India though is that the media is completely biased towards the government. The prime minister of the world's largest democracy has held exactly zero press conferences in 6-7 years. When he does, they are incredibly scripted where they ask him if he likes to eat mangoes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dUyQWcn1CA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dUyQWcn1CA). He also does a poor job of answering tough questions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAGAYL8dtic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAGAYL8dtic) so the media interviews he does give are more of a PR stunt for him where the "journalists" praise his qualities and ask him no hard questions. Coming back to your question: the farmers have clearly said they denounce the violence in more than one ways. The other thing that is leading more credence to this theory is how the police treated the people indulging in violence. Evidence from the ground shows that the police shook hands and were generally very respectful towards them. This suggests infiltration. More sources: https://thewire.in/agriculture/day-of-clashes-with-bjp-sponsored-goons-bolsters-farmers-resolve https://thewire.in/agriculture/day-of-clashes-with-bjp-spons...

didibus 6y ago

> I am all for peaceful protests [...] But not at the cost of damage to the public property, rioting and violence Which one is it? So I'm peacefully protesting... And then someone ELSE two street away from me breaks a window... Am I not allowed to peacefully protest anymore?

0xFFFE 6y ago
IF you were a cop, how would you differentiate between the two in that chaos? Your first objective would be to bring the situation under control before more people get hurt or more property gets damaged. Just take a look at this video and tell me you will be able to differentiate. There are no "two" different streets here, just one big chaos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqiwIbUzPyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqiwIbUzPyo

AmericanChopper 6y ago

How do you feel about the revolutionary war? Or the Jacobite uprisings? Or the troubles? Or the French Resistance? Or the Yugoslav Partisans? I’m all for peaceful solutions too, but if you look through history you’ll find plenty of morally righteous violent resistance. In this case it seems inevitable to me. The aggrieved parties here mostly come from a place that was previously violently conquered by the Mughal Empire, then later violently won their independence to form the Sikh Empire, shortly after that they were violently conquered again by the British Raj. The British Raj was ousted by nonviolent resistance, but that’s an incredible anomaly in history, and was only really possible because the British had largely lost interest in holding the colony. The result was the partitioning of India, which worked out terribly for a lot of people. Especially the Punjabis, who’s state was cut in half and split between Islamic Pakistan, and Hindu India. Hindu Nationalism on the India side of the border has lead to decades of often violent oppression of minority group in India. Why would violent resistance not be a morally defensible response? I also find the international coverage of this issue quite funny. If you only read international sources you might come away with the impression that this conflict is just between “farmers” and the Indian government. If you read Indian sources you’re more likely to get the impression this is a separatist conflict between “Khalistani terrorists” and the Indian government.

0xFFFE 6y ago
So if this not a protest against the farm bill, they should drop the facade then. > you’ll find plenty of morally righteous violent resistance. Sure, but we should have a sense of proportion here. Supreme court is hearing the case and the Govt has agreed to put the new law on hold for 1.5 years. Why not wait for Supreme court's judgement? How do you justify blocking highways for over 2 months causing great economic damage to your fellow countrymen, that too during COVID times when people are struggling to put the food on the table. I have read the bill and I am linking it here (this is Govt. Of India website). There is nothing there that can justify the violence we just witnessed. http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2020/222040.pdf http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2020/222040.pdf
- AmericanChopper 6y ago