5 ms·

Shelling Out -- The Origins of Money

50 points by dynosaur 15y ago

nazgulnarsil 15y ago
fun fact: Szabo is partially responsible for the idea behind bitcoin. http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2005/12/bit-gold.html http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2005/12/bit-gold.html
- hugh3 15y ago
  The first thing I did upon opening this article was to search for "bitcoin" to find out whether it was going to be a shaggy dog story that ends by exhorting me to buy bitcoin. Turns out it wasn't, so I skimmed it. Quite interesting.
  - nazgulnarsil 15y ago
    he blogs about all sorts of stuff but his website is academic papers.
spinchange 15y ago
I love the "money is a formal token of delayed reciprocal altruism" bit, attributed to Richard Dawkins.
geuis 15y ago
I'm taking the time to read through the article thoroughly. So far about 50% through. I take issue with some assumptions like our Neolithic ancestors were always on the edge of starvation. Hunter gatherer tribes in many parts of the world in pre-Columbian times and even today got along quite well and in many instances had as much or more free time than we do today. That aside, the general direction of the paper seems to be that some concept of money or "collectibles" has been endemic with our species since very close to the beginning about 100k years ago. The author equates this as a process manifested from underlying genetic survival mechanisms. It's very interested and I recommend others to read it.
- nonzero 15y ago
  I always wonder about the debate of whether hunter-foragers worked 11 hours a week for food and shelter or were always on the brink of starvation and warfare. I wonder if we'll ever know, since there's so much earth left to dig up and so many stories we can tell with the few arrowheads and bones we find. I do know that whatever you believe in about scarcity has a profound impact on how you work, buy, and vote, and that by controlling the narratives surrounding scarcity in human evolution, you control the policies that the society creates and enforces.
nonzero 15y ago
Evolutionary psychology strikes me as myth-making, not in the pejorative sense but in that it forms an understandable, cohesive, and easily retold story around a bunch of observations. It's ironic that the article labels the rationale primitive societies give for the importance of their media of exchange as "mythologies that served more as proximate motivators of behavior than as theories of ultimate purpose or origin." Couldn't we say the same thing about what people think of money today? From "money is the root of evil" to our various economic theories, we are just telling ourselves stories that, as time passes, become more comprehensive (explains earlier theories and more). If our economic theories are myths, which I believe they are, then how should we mold the narrative to inspire us toward more cooperation and less starvation and violence?
- spodek 15y ago
  "Evolutionary psychology strikes me as myth-making, not in the pejorative sense but in that it forms an understandable, cohesive, and easily retold story around a bunch of observations." Perhaps it may serve that purpose, but a major difference is that evolutionary psychology aims to be falsifiable, not based on what an authority says, subject to peer review, etc. Money didn't exist and now it does. Personally, I find a scientific basis to understanding what happened the most useful foundation to understanding it today. Sure, I have my shorthand mental models that aren't scientific that serve me sometimes -- I do like old quotes like "money is the root of evil" and Pink Floyd songs -- but I value honing in on one story and trying for accuracy with it.
  - spodek 15y ago
    Speaking of accuracy in stories, I just looked up "money is the root of evil" and it turns out it's a popular misquotation. According do http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/List_of_misquotations http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/List_of_misquotations, it's a biblical misquote. The original states it's the love of money that is a problem: In context: "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." (1 Timothy 6:10) KJV (The King James Bible) Interesting irony on accuracy and change of meaning.
utunga 15y ago
It's a really excellent piece. I was very much informed/inspired by this when I made my humble attempt at a 'understanding money from a game theory / social network perspective' video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQX3tNuC_TY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQX3tNuC_TY
patrickgzill 15y ago
There is really a huge amount wrong with this article. For instance, fiat currency has been around for hundreds of years, it is not a 20th-century occurrence. The French used assignats which were similar to our Federal Reserve Notes, the Chinese used small silk sheets the Empereor imprinted his seal onto, etc. Even during the time of Thomas Jefferson there was the Continental currency, which crashed (as did all other fiat enterprises) rather spectacularly: "The annihilation was so complete that barber-shops were papered in jest with the bills; and the sailors, on returning from their cruise, being paid off in bundles of this worthless money, had suits of clothes made of it, and with characteristic light-heartedness turned their loss into a frolic by parading through the streets in decayed finery which in its better days had passed for thousands of dollars." Secondly, he claims that eBay's main purpose is to allow for trade in collectible items. While I am sure there are many sales of Beanie Babies online, he quotes no sources to lend support to that argument. Myself, I have only ever bought computer equipment from eBay...

50 points by dynosaur 15y ago

fun fact: Szabo is partially responsible for the idea behind bitcoin. http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2005/12/bit-gold.html http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2005/12/bit-gold.html

hugh3 15y ago
The first thing I did upon opening this article was to search for "bitcoin" to find out whether it was going to be a shaggy dog story that ends by exhorting me to buy bitcoin. Turns out it wasn't, so I skimmed it. Quite interesting.
- nazgulnarsil 15y ago
  he blogs about all sorts of stuff but his website is academic papers.

spinchange 15y ago

I love the "money is a formal token of delayed reciprocal altruism" bit, attributed to Richard Dawkins.

geuis 15y ago

I'm taking the time to read through the article thoroughly. So far about 50% through. I take issue with some assumptions like our Neolithic ancestors were always on the edge of starvation. Hunter gatherer tribes in many parts of the world in pre-Columbian times and even today got along quite well and in many instances had as much or more free time than we do today. That aside, the general direction of the paper seems to be that some concept of money or "collectibles" has been endemic with our species since very close to the beginning about 100k years ago. The author equates this as a process manifested from underlying genetic survival mechanisms. It's very interested and I recommend others to read it.

nonzero 15y ago
I always wonder about the debate of whether hunter-foragers worked 11 hours a week for food and shelter or were always on the brink of starvation and warfare. I wonder if we'll ever know, since there's so much earth left to dig up and so many stories we can tell with the few arrowheads and bones we find. I do know that whatever you believe in about scarcity has a profound impact on how you work, buy, and vote, and that by controlling the narratives surrounding scarcity in human evolution, you control the policies that the society creates and enforces.

nonzero 15y ago

Evolutionary psychology strikes me as myth-making, not in the pejorative sense but in that it forms an understandable, cohesive, and easily retold story around a bunch of observations. It's ironic that the article labels the rationale primitive societies give for the importance of their media of exchange as "mythologies that served more as proximate motivators of behavior than as theories of ultimate purpose or origin." Couldn't we say the same thing about what people think of money today? From "money is the root of evil" to our various economic theories, we are just telling ourselves stories that, as time passes, become more comprehensive (explains earlier theories and more). If our economic theories are myths, which I believe they are, then how should we mold the narrative to inspire us toward more cooperation and less starvation and violence?

spodek 15y ago
"Evolutionary psychology strikes me as myth-making, not in the pejorative sense but in that it forms an understandable, cohesive, and easily retold story around a bunch of observations." Perhaps it may serve that purpose, but a major difference is that evolutionary psychology aims to be falsifiable, not based on what an authority says, subject to peer review, etc. Money didn't exist and now it does. Personally, I find a scientific basis to understanding what happened the most useful foundation to understanding it today. Sure, I have my shorthand mental models that aren't scientific that serve me sometimes -- I do like old quotes like "money is the root of evil" and Pink Floyd songs -- but I value honing in on one story and trying for accuracy with it.
- spodek 15y ago
  Speaking of accuracy in stories, I just looked up "money is the root of evil" and it turns out it's a popular misquotation. According do http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/List_of_misquotations http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/List_of_misquotations, it's a biblical misquote. The original states it's the love of money that is a problem: In context: "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." (1 Timothy 6:10) KJV (The King James Bible) Interesting irony on accuracy and change of meaning.

utunga 15y ago

It's a really excellent piece. I was very much informed/inspired by this when I made my humble attempt at a 'understanding money from a game theory / social network perspective' video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQX3tNuC_TY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQX3tNuC_TY

patrickgzill 15y ago

There is really a huge amount wrong with this article. For instance, fiat currency has been around for hundreds of years, it is not a 20th-century occurrence. The French used assignats which were similar to our Federal Reserve Notes, the Chinese used small silk sheets the Empereor imprinted his seal onto, etc. Even during the time of Thomas Jefferson there was the Continental currency, which crashed (as did all other fiat enterprises) rather spectacularly: "The annihilation was so complete that barber-shops were papered in jest with the bills; and the sailors, on returning from their cruise, being paid off in bundles of this worthless money, had suits of clothes made of it, and with characteristic light-heartedness turned their loss into a frolic by parading through the streets in decayed finery which in its better days had passed for thousands of dollars." Secondly, he claims that eBay's main purpose is to allow for trade in collectible items. While I am sure there are many sales of Beanie Babies online, he quotes no sources to lend support to that argument. Myself, I have only ever bought computer equipment from eBay...