5 ms·

Or as the late great Mark Twain put it: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." A good example of FUD spreading using 'facts' is th

Or as the late great Mark Twain put it: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." A good example of FUD spreading using 'facts' is the current war on vaping. More contentiously, there is also the war against glycophosphate.

oblio 6y ago
I don't know anything about these "wars". What's happening?
- thereisnospork 6y ago
  There's a bunch of ads promoting making vaping illegal, on terrestrial radio/tv fear mongering about heavy metals aimed at the 'Karen' crowd. As far as I can tell they are based on a few people who died after consuming grey market THC cartridges and some studies where the scientists intentionally cranked up the wattage above spec to get metal release. Glycophosphate (Round-Up) allegedly caused cancer in a few workers who, per label, grossly misused it. There have a been a few high profile lawsuits, at least one in CA, over those cancers, and corresponding calls to ban it. This is of course despite both an excellent safety record and lack of safer alternatives, asserted by many studies and meta studies from the FDA and the European equivalent. Glycophosphate though, is 'factually'[0] listed by IARC as a class 2A carcinogen. I'm sure there are few HN threads digging into this one if you have lots of time to kill. [0]IARC is basically a factory of 'facts' that sound bad but aren't when it comes to cancer: class 2A is the same class as eating red meat.
  - chalst 6y ago
    Roundup deserves its bad press, regardless of which exact scandal caused it to penetrate popular consciousness. Monsanto's highest margin R-Up product range is ultra-high dosage pesticides together with crops designed to tolerate the pesticide. It kills all rival plants, as advertised, and through its effect on funghi and bacteria it has plenty of knock-on effects on local ecologies. It's real "Silent Spring" material. The decision by the EU Parliament to ensure that decisions about permissibility of pesticides are based on open science, rather than the proprietary study model that dominated before, has led to a lot of good research. Cf. e.g., https://academic.oup.com/toxsci/article/176/2/253/5835885?casa_token=x2CoFg5HPUcAAAAA:oXhVNp--CKaXZtbtAOfh0yXgY51v4pyviAUr4chDBnyvWKOOSeBMM7f1U_sjAJrqqL4X8RRn8tfh https://academic.oup.com/toxsci/article/176/2/253/5835885?ca...
  - MegaButts 6y ago
    > This is of course despite both an excellent safety record and lack of safer alternatives, asserted by many studies and meta studies from the FDA and the European equivalent. Leaded gasoline had an extraordinary safety record for decades before suddenly being recognized as dangerous. The story is actually fascinating. But my point is this is actually not as strong of an argument as you might think, especially since glyphosate is a patented chemical effectively sold by one company. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/94569/clair-patterson-scientist-who-determined-age-earth-and-then-saved-it https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/94569/clair-patterson-sc...
    - wazoox 6y ago
      I think that the patents on glyphosate itself expired recently. The RoundUp-ready seeds are still protected, though.
      - saalweachter 6y ago
        Glyphosate itself was discovered back in the 50's; patents around that would have expired ~50 years ago. The patents around glyphosate resistant soybeans expired five or ten years back; someone immediately produced and released an unencumbered version. (I don't think it's as popular as you'd think; the yields are a bit lower than the state-of-the-art varieties available now, and farmers purchase new seeds every year for a lot of reasons beyond patent encumbrance.)
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - ScottBurson 6y ago
      Wow, that was fascinating -- thanks for the link.
gnarbarian 6y ago
Reminds me of the apocryphal but excellent quote: "If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed." Mark Twain

oblio 6y ago

I don't know anything about these "wars". What's happening?

thereisnospork 6y ago
There's a bunch of ads promoting making vaping illegal, on terrestrial radio/tv fear mongering about heavy metals aimed at the 'Karen' crowd. As far as I can tell they are based on a few people who died after consuming grey market THC cartridges and some studies where the scientists intentionally cranked up the wattage above spec to get metal release. Glycophosphate (Round-Up) allegedly caused cancer in a few workers who, per label, grossly misused it. There have a been a few high profile lawsuits, at least one in CA, over those cancers, and corresponding calls to ban it. This is of course despite both an excellent safety record and lack of safer alternatives, asserted by many studies and meta studies from the FDA and the European equivalent. Glycophosphate though, is 'factually'[0] listed by IARC as a class 2A carcinogen. I'm sure there are few HN threads digging into this one if you have lots of time to kill. [0]IARC is basically a factory of 'facts' that sound bad but aren't when it comes to cancer: class 2A is the same class as eating red meat.
- chalst 6y ago
  Roundup deserves its bad press, regardless of which exact scandal caused it to penetrate popular consciousness. Monsanto's highest margin R-Up product range is ultra-high dosage pesticides together with crops designed to tolerate the pesticide. It kills all rival plants, as advertised, and through its effect on funghi and bacteria it has plenty of knock-on effects on local ecologies. It's real "Silent Spring" material. The decision by the EU Parliament to ensure that decisions about permissibility of pesticides are based on open science, rather than the proprietary study model that dominated before, has led to a lot of good research. Cf. e.g., https://academic.oup.com/toxsci/article/176/2/253/5835885?casa_token=x2CoFg5HPUcAAAAA:oXhVNp--CKaXZtbtAOfh0yXgY51v4pyviAUr4chDBnyvWKOOSeBMM7f1U_sjAJrqqL4X8RRn8tfh https://academic.oup.com/toxsci/article/176/2/253/5835885?ca...
- MegaButts 6y ago
  > This is of course despite both an excellent safety record and lack of safer alternatives, asserted by many studies and meta studies from the FDA and the European equivalent. Leaded gasoline had an extraordinary safety record for decades before suddenly being recognized as dangerous. The story is actually fascinating. But my point is this is actually not as strong of an argument as you might think, especially since glyphosate is a patented chemical effectively sold by one company. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/94569/clair-patterson-scientist-who-determined-age-earth-and-then-saved-it https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/94569/clair-patterson-sc...
  - wazoox 6y ago
    I think that the patents on glyphosate itself expired recently. The RoundUp-ready seeds are still protected, though.
    - saalweachter 6y ago
      Glyphosate itself was discovered back in the 50's; patents around that would have expired ~50 years ago. The patents around glyphosate resistant soybeans expired five or ten years back; someone immediately produced and released an unencumbered version. (I don't think it's as popular as you'd think; the yields are a bit lower than the state-of-the-art varieties available now, and farmers purchase new seeds every year for a lot of reasons beyond patent encumbrance.)
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ScottBurson 6y ago
    Wow, that was fascinating -- thanks for the link.

gnarbarian 6y ago

Reminds me of the apocryphal but excellent quote: "If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed." Mark Twain