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You’re right. You should be upvoted, not downvoted. And then there is the cost of accidents. I’ve had two people hit me (their fault in both cases) and both cle

by natch 6y ago

You’re right. You should be upvoted, not downvoted. And then there is the cost of accidents. I’ve had two people hit me (their fault in both cases) and both clearly expressed to me their intention to lie about the details of accident to avoid responsibility. They then followed through and lied to the insurance company, just as they said they would. You might think I must live in a sketchy area to encounter such people. Well no. One was a specialist doctor at Stanford hospital and the other worked at Apple. But they both lied. My car defended me from severe financial costs these people could have inflicted on me. Thousands of dollars if you add up the two cases. And that’s in just a couple years of ownership. Both were caught on video and were held responsible despite their lies. Of course it might seem that having cameras has nothing to do with being an EV. But some EVs do have a lot of cameras, and that’s part of the cost people complain about, but it’s also part of how the car has much lower total cost of ownership. It should be factored in when making cost comparisons, just like the lower maintenance costs you point out. The way it does have to do with the car being an EV is that these cameras are backed by a massive battery, so they can be always on. ICE cars can’t come even close to doing that.

mixmastamyk 6y ago
Don't know about that last point. Gas cars have a starter battery and alternators which probably produce enough juice to power cameras, that don't take a lot of power.
- myself248 6y ago
  While the car is running, certainly. But a 600WH starter battery (which is lead-acid and doesn't really like being run down) is no match for a 60,000WH lithium traction battery. A typical four-camera 360° setup probably draws about 5-10 watts, more if it's performing motion-detection on the images. You'd be unwise to run that overnight on a typical starter battery, especially in winter. But it's a drop in the bucket for an EV. (Personally I think this is an egregious amount of "vampire power" to waste if nothing's going on, but apparently a lot of things are going on.)
  - mixmastamyk 6y ago
    The above post didn't state it happeed in the middle of the night, so I assumed a moving violation.
    - natch 6y ago
      My two cases were indeed moving violations, but the cameras are there at all times if you choose to leave them on. Well until your battery drops too low, in which case the car prioritizes saving energy for driving. Some people turn them off at home if they feel the power usage is not a good tradeoff. For example if they have a secure garage with cameras already.
thatfrenchguy 6y ago
> You might think I must live in a sketchy area to encounter such people. Well no. One was a specialist doctor at Stanford hospital and the other worked at Apple. But they both lied You must have been upper middle class for either too long or not long enough to not thing upper middle class folks can be sketchy as hell :-). > Of course it might seem that having cameras has nothing to do with being an EV. But some EVs do have a lot of cameras, and that’s part of the cost people complain about, but it’s also part of how the car has much lower total cost of ownership. It should be factored in when making cost comparisons, just like the lower maintenance costs you point out. Yeah, you can have a dashcam in any car ?
- arbitrary_name 6y ago
  Rich white people are sketchy as hell because they stand a lot to lose and generally can get away with pulling shit. I should know, I'm a sketchy upper middle white guy who recognizes his privilege.
  - wernercd 6y ago
    I'm an upper middle class white guy. I have no "privilege's" except being blamed for stuff by my skin color by those who claim to be fighting racism. I have what's called "results" of hard work, good decisions and a healthy dose of luck to go from the poor kid of a single mother on government cheese and living on family couches to making a good salary at a good job. I earned my place - I wasn't "privileged" into it. The only REAL privilege I have is being an American - and that's color blind. The top 1% globally make 30k/year and that's the vast majority of Americans. And I'm not ashamed of that... I'm proud of it - as I should be. Any attempts to place race as a factor is done by what we love to call... racists.
    - cycrutchfield 6y ago
      It's sad that you have a blind spot as to the benefits that have been afforded to you by society that others do not have. And, of course, since you cannot experience what life is like on the other side, you will continue to have this blind spot and deny that you have it.
steveBK123 6y ago
To be fair, the sentry mode on Teslas is great but if we are going to talk about cost of accidents & Tesla ... it’s mostly a negative story. I’m an owner and fortunately avoided accidents so far, but the stories of people waiting on parts dealing with rentals for weeks or months are.. extensive. The cost of accidents is reflected in the fairly high insurance costs for Teslas. This may not be terribly different than a German luxury make you could be cross shopping in the price range, but it’s something to bear in mind.
- Hamuko 6y ago
  >This may not be terribly different than a German luxury make you could be cross shopping in the price range, but it’s something to bear in mind. Definitely seems higher. I just checked the price for insuring a 2019 Mercedes-Benz E-Class (hybrid). It was 1350 €/year or 2100 €/year if I choose the premium coverage options. For a 2019 Tesla Model 3, the same prices were 2030 €/year and 2670 €/year. 2019 Tesla Model S was even worse at 2400 €/year and 3260 €/year. Model S is definitely more expensive than an E-Class, so I also compared to a 2019 Mercedes-Benz S-Class (hybrid), which was about 16,000 € more expensive to buy than the Model S. Got 1920 €/year and 3060 €/year. (Premium coverage options were parking coverage, glass insurance, better write-off compensation and temp car coverage.)
  - njarboe 6y ago
    Tesla has their own insurance product[1] to try and lower what they think are inflated insurance costs on their cars. I don't know if they actually do offer better prices. It would be interesting to know. [1]https://www.tesla.com/insurance https://www.tesla.com/insurance
    - Hamuko 6y ago
      I imagine that's only available in the US. The page is in English and there's only an American phone number even when switching to the local Tesla site.
      - 6y ago
supertrope 6y ago
Everyone lies after a car accident. The claims adjusters expect it and only go off the evidence.
jiveturkey 6y ago
you don’t know if they would have been held responsible even without video
vmception 6y ago
> But some EVs do have a lot of cameras, and that’s part of the cost people complain about I’m still trying to figure out why EV owners rationalize the inclusion of basic consumer electronics to somehow add thousands upon thousands of dollars to the price

by natch 6y ago

mixmastamyk 6y ago

Don't know about that last point. Gas cars have a starter battery and alternators which probably produce enough juice to power cameras, that don't take a lot of power.

myself248 6y ago
While the car is running, certainly. But a 600WH starter battery (which is lead-acid and doesn't really like being run down) is no match for a 60,000WH lithium traction battery. A typical four-camera 360° setup probably draws about 5-10 watts, more if it's performing motion-detection on the images. You'd be unwise to run that overnight on a typical starter battery, especially in winter. But it's a drop in the bucket for an EV. (Personally I think this is an egregious amount of "vampire power" to waste if nothing's going on, but apparently a lot of things are going on.)
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  The above post didn't state it happeed in the middle of the night, so I assumed a moving violation.
  - natch 6y ago
    My two cases were indeed moving violations, but the cameras are there at all times if you choose to leave them on. Well until your battery drops too low, in which case the car prioritizes saving energy for driving. Some people turn them off at home if they feel the power usage is not a good tradeoff. For example if they have a secure garage with cameras already.

thatfrenchguy 6y ago

> You might think I must live in a sketchy area to encounter such people. Well no. One was a specialist doctor at Stanford hospital and the other worked at Apple. But they both lied You must have been upper middle class for either too long or not long enough to not thing upper middle class folks can be sketchy as hell :-). > Of course it might seem that having cameras has nothing to do with being an EV. But some EVs do have a lot of cameras, and that’s part of the cost people complain about, but it’s also part of how the car has much lower total cost of ownership. It should be factored in when making cost comparisons, just like the lower maintenance costs you point out. Yeah, you can have a dashcam in any car ?

arbitrary_name 6y ago
Rich white people are sketchy as hell because they stand a lot to lose and generally can get away with pulling shit. I should know, I'm a sketchy upper middle white guy who recognizes his privilege.
- wernercd 6y ago
  I'm an upper middle class white guy. I have no "privilege's" except being blamed for stuff by my skin color by those who claim to be fighting racism. I have what's called "results" of hard work, good decisions and a healthy dose of luck to go from the poor kid of a single mother on government cheese and living on family couches to making a good salary at a good job. I earned my place - I wasn't "privileged" into it. The only REAL privilege I have is being an American - and that's color blind. The top 1% globally make 30k/year and that's the vast majority of Americans. And I'm not ashamed of that... I'm proud of it - as I should be. Any attempts to place race as a factor is done by what we love to call... racists.
  - cycrutchfield 6y ago
    It's sad that you have a blind spot as to the benefits that have been afforded to you by society that others do not have. And, of course, since you cannot experience what life is like on the other side, you will continue to have this blind spot and deny that you have it.

steveBK123 6y ago

To be fair, the sentry mode on Teslas is great but if we are going to talk about cost of accidents & Tesla ... it’s mostly a negative story. I’m an owner and fortunately avoided accidents so far, but the stories of people waiting on parts dealing with rentals for weeks or months are.. extensive. The cost of accidents is reflected in the fairly high insurance costs for Teslas. This may not be terribly different than a German luxury make you could be cross shopping in the price range, but it’s something to bear in mind.

Hamuko 6y ago
>This may not be terribly different than a German luxury make you could be cross shopping in the price range, but it’s something to bear in mind. Definitely seems higher. I just checked the price for insuring a 2019 Mercedes-Benz E-Class (hybrid). It was 1350 €/year or 2100 €/year if I choose the premium coverage options. For a 2019 Tesla Model 3, the same prices were 2030 €/year and 2670 €/year. 2019 Tesla Model S was even worse at 2400 €/year and 3260 €/year. Model S is definitely more expensive than an E-Class, so I also compared to a 2019 Mercedes-Benz S-Class (hybrid), which was about 16,000 € more expensive to buy than the Model S. Got 1920 €/year and 3060 €/year. (Premium coverage options were parking coverage, glass insurance, better write-off compensation and temp car coverage.)
- njarboe 6y ago
  Tesla has their own insurance product[1] to try and lower what they think are inflated insurance costs on their cars. I don't know if they actually do offer better prices. It would be interesting to know. [1]https://www.tesla.com/insurance https://www.tesla.com/insurance
  - Hamuko 6y ago
    I imagine that's only available in the US. The page is in English and there's only an American phone number even when switching to the local Tesla site.
    - 6y ago

supertrope 6y ago

Everyone lies after a car accident. The claims adjusters expect it and only go off the evidence.

jiveturkey 6y ago

you don’t know if they would have been held responsible even without video

vmception 6y ago

> But some EVs do have a lot of cameras, and that’s part of the cost people complain about I’m still trying to figure out why EV owners rationalize the inclusion of basic consumer electronics to somehow add thousands upon thousands of dollars to the price