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What's more important, pretty long exposure pictures taken from Earth or internet access? I say internet access. Space telescopes are the future of real astrono

What's more important, pretty long exposure pictures taken from Earth or internet access? I say internet access. Space telescopes are the future of real astronomy important data comes from anyway.

factotvm 6y ago
You have chosen poorly. If we lose that essence of humanity where we feel wonder and awe looking up into the night sky, then we lose one of the prime movers of discovery and science. Or do you think cat videos can do the same?
- CharlesW 6y ago
  > If we lose that essence of humanity where we feel wonder and awe looking up into the night sky, then we lose one of the prime movers of discovery and science. Do we? Anecdotally, I grew up in the country and mostly didn't give the night sky a second thought, and yet have always been pretty obsessed with space-related fact and fiction.
  - factotvm 6y ago
    Yes, I believe we do. I only need think of the math discovered solely to predict the stars to know that without the night sky, we are different. To say nothing of the poets.
  - abdullahkhalids 6y ago
    Some cultural artifacts continue to exist because the experiences of past generations are passed down through teaching and stories. But if not restrengthened, they die out. Right now, we are zero or one generation away from large swaths of human population having interacted with the full night sky. What happens in two more generations when 99% of humans are able to see only a handful of starts at any given time? That is when you start losing, but at that point it is already too late.
- jimmaswell 6y ago
  You can't see Starlink satellites with the naked eye, so I don't see how that's relevant.
- kalleboo 6y ago
  Seeing satellites fly across the sky also fills me with wonder and awe. A tiny little metal bucket that we sent up there, relaying information, unfathomably far away. It's pretty amazing.
reaperducer 6y ago
What's more important, pretty long exposure pictures taken from Earth or internet access? If that's all you think is lost, then you are apparently not a scholar of history, archaeology, philosophy, literature, or anthropology. Moreover, just because -you- don't value something doesn't mean it has no value.
- jimmaswell 6y ago
  The Starlink issue is only relevant to streaks on long exposure pictures. You can't see it with the naked eye. The ship has long sailed on general light pollution near urban centers. Nice if it can be reversed but going to unreasonable lengths to preserve everything how it was in the past is reminiscent of people who cover their furniture in plastic.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
    "The ship has long sailed on general CO2 emissions from industrial societies. Nice if it can be reversed but going to unreasonable lengths to preserve everything how it was in the past is reminiscent of people who cover their furniture with plastic." I wonder if you have this opinion also?
  - reaperducer 6y ago
    going to unreasonable lengths to preserve everything how it was in the past is reminiscent of people who cover their furniture in plastic. Your comment is reminiscent of ageism. It's also disingenuous to frame this as a "Starlink" problem. It's a Starlink problem plus the 13 other companies also trying to put 50,000 microsats in orbit, plus the 200 companies that will do it after them when prices come down. In a couple of decades, we end up with millions of microsats in orbit, and by then there's nothing that can be done. But as long as we can beam social media misinformation into the most remote corners of the planet, heaven and nature be damned.
  - jk7tarYZAQNpTQa 6y ago
    > You can't see it with the naked eye Maybe not where you live. But in dark places it's really ease to spot them.
filleduchaos 6y ago
I have internet access (I am from and live in Nigeria). Nobody consulted me (or my country, or any of the countries it's purporting to help) about Starlink. Our input is of course never needed - why would it, when America (both the government and the companies) can simply decide what's good or not good for us instead? In fairness, this is a deep-rooted bitterness that goes far beyond this one project. The sheer fact that an American company can just up and do things that impact the entire globe on a whim (and worse, the power the American government has to approve/"regulate" such projects as though only their citizens are impacted) is unbelievably absurd to me (see also: Facebook, etc).
- Mountain_Skies 6y ago
  Nigeria is a signatory of most space treaties other than the unpopular Moon Treaty. These treaties are in need of updates to reflect the current situation but none of that changes that what is going on now is within the stipulations of the treaties the signatories freely entered into.
lightbulbjim 6y ago
I can setup a telescope in my back yard, but not in space.

What's more important, pretty long exposure pictures taken from Earth or internet access? I say internet access. Space telescopes are the future of real astronomy important data comes from anyway.

factotvm 6y ago

You have chosen poorly. If we lose that essence of humanity where we feel wonder and awe looking up into the night sky, then we lose one of the prime movers of discovery and science. Or do you think cat videos can do the same?

CharlesW 6y ago
> If we lose that essence of humanity where we feel wonder and awe looking up into the night sky, then we lose one of the prime movers of discovery and science. Do we? Anecdotally, I grew up in the country and mostly didn't give the night sky a second thought, and yet have always been pretty obsessed with space-related fact and fiction.
- factotvm 6y ago
  Yes, I believe we do. I only need think of the math discovered solely to predict the stars to know that without the night sky, we are different. To say nothing of the poets.
- abdullahkhalids 6y ago
  Some cultural artifacts continue to exist because the experiences of past generations are passed down through teaching and stories. But if not restrengthened, they die out. Right now, we are zero or one generation away from large swaths of human population having interacted with the full night sky. What happens in two more generations when 99% of humans are able to see only a handful of starts at any given time? That is when you start losing, but at that point it is already too late.
jimmaswell 6y ago
You can't see Starlink satellites with the naked eye, so I don't see how that's relevant.
kalleboo 6y ago
Seeing satellites fly across the sky also fills me with wonder and awe. A tiny little metal bucket that we sent up there, relaying information, unfathomably far away. It's pretty amazing.

reaperducer 6y ago

What's more important, pretty long exposure pictures taken from Earth or internet access? If that's all you think is lost, then you are apparently not a scholar of history, archaeology, philosophy, literature, or anthropology. Moreover, just because -you- don't value something doesn't mean it has no value.

jimmaswell 6y ago
The Starlink issue is only relevant to streaks on long exposure pictures. You can't see it with the naked eye. The ship has long sailed on general light pollution near urban centers. Nice if it can be reversed but going to unreasonable lengths to preserve everything how it was in the past is reminiscent of people who cover their furniture in plastic.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  "The ship has long sailed on general CO2 emissions from industrial societies. Nice if it can be reversed but going to unreasonable lengths to preserve everything how it was in the past is reminiscent of people who cover their furniture with plastic." I wonder if you have this opinion also?
- reaperducer 6y ago
  going to unreasonable lengths to preserve everything how it was in the past is reminiscent of people who cover their furniture in plastic. Your comment is reminiscent of ageism. It's also disingenuous to frame this as a "Starlink" problem. It's a Starlink problem plus the 13 other companies also trying to put 50,000 microsats in orbit, plus the 200 companies that will do it after them when prices come down. In a couple of decades, we end up with millions of microsats in orbit, and by then there's nothing that can be done. But as long as we can beam social media misinformation into the most remote corners of the planet, heaven and nature be damned.
- jk7tarYZAQNpTQa 6y ago
  > You can't see it with the naked eye Maybe not where you live. But in dark places it's really ease to spot them.

filleduchaos 6y ago

I have internet access (I am from and live in Nigeria). Nobody consulted me (or my country, or any of the countries it's purporting to help) about Starlink. Our input is of course never needed - why would it, when America (both the government and the companies) can simply decide what's good or not good for us instead? In fairness, this is a deep-rooted bitterness that goes far beyond this one project. The sheer fact that an American company can just up and do things that impact the entire globe on a whim (and worse, the power the American government has to approve/"regulate" such projects as though only their citizens are impacted) is unbelievably absurd to me (see also: Facebook, etc).

Mountain_Skies 6y ago
Nigeria is a signatory of most space treaties other than the unpopular Moon Treaty. These treaties are in need of updates to reflect the current situation but none of that changes that what is going on now is within the stipulations of the treaties the signatories freely entered into.

lightbulbjim 6y ago

I can setup a telescope in my back yard, but not in space.