6 ms·

Migrants, even illegal migrants, in the United States DO have rights. The bill of rights covers all people in our country, whether they are undocumented, touris

Migrants, even illegal migrants, in the United States DO have rights. The bill of rights covers all people in our country, whether they are undocumented, tourists, students, or whatever. If you abuse them, they may be deported, but you can be prosecuted and serve prison time for abusing them. Taking away someone Visa is a crime too.. and preventing them from leaving is a felony. And we prosecute people all the time for that.. human traffickers, for example.

m463 6y ago
You should read about migrants from central or south america - what they go through while traveling through intervening countries and mexico and then coyotes. And deportation back to that is a real threat which means they will shut up in the US. EDIT: wasn't picking on the US, just saying it's only part of their journey, and once they're in the US, lots of stuff goes unreported.
- rgbrenner 6y ago
  There is a power imbalance between the employer and an illegal immigrant... they can certainly push that further than they could with a us citizen, but since they do have rights, there are limits to the abuse. The immigrant always has a way out, with the worst case penalty being deportation. Additionally: - In some cities ("sanctuary cities"), reporting a crime does not lead to deportation. - They can also apply for amnesty if the conditions in their home country are that bad. - Agencies accept anonymous reports. The immigrant doesnt even need to be working at the place at the time of the report. So depending on the circumstances of the abuse, there may be no consequences to the illegal immigrant for reporting.
- pseudo0 6y ago
  Sounds like the real issue is the pull factor of lax immigration enforcement and widespread under the table employment in the US. We should be emulating the Australian model which has saved thousands of lives by effectively deterring dangerous human trafficking. With robust work visa verification and strict border security, coyotes and other human traffickers would be put out of business. Solve the problem of employers hiring illegal immigrants, and the issue of these employers abusing the inherent power imbalance disappears as well.
  - Larrikin 6y ago
    Its a politcally untenable position on both sides sadly in the US. If employers were fined 2x, 3x, 4x salary for every single employee found to be working under the table the issue would solve itself. But democrats are of the position that people over staying their visas, illegally immigrating, are as an entire group people who will be killed if they go home so will do nothing to actually make life more difficult for people who do those things. Pro business republicans are happy to allow their constituents to get a leg up in their businesses off the back of immigrants before they deport them so the immigrants can't use any public services.
    - ceph_ 6y ago
      Republican businesses owners like trump love illegal immigrant labor because it's another thing they can hang over their head. If they start organizing or complaining they can just anonymously tip ICE about the workers and suddenly their problem is solved. When they say they want to punish immigration they mean punish immigrants.
    - pseudo0 6y ago
      Yeah, I doubt it'll be solved anytime soon, given how Democrats see it as a way to gain future votes, and corporate Republicans use it to privatize gains and socialize costs. Paying someone under minimum wage while they collect far more in government services than they pay in taxes is a classic example of abusing unpriced externalities.
ben_w 6y ago
I lack the perspective to say if the following point applies in this case, but one must not assume that what is written into law or constitution is what actually happens. To give a deliberately extreme example, Wikipedia says this about the Constitution of North Korea: """Citizens have the right to elect and be elected (Article 66), freedom of speech, the press, assembly, demonstration and association (Article 67), freedom of religious belief (Article 68), right to submit complaints and petitions (Article 69), right to work (Article 70), right to relaxation (Article 71), right to free medical care (Article 72), right to education (Article 73), freedom in scientific, literary and artistic pursuits (Article 74), freedom of residence and travel (Article 75) and inviolability of the person and home and privacy of correspondence (Article 79).""" - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_North_Korea#1948_People's_Constitution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_North_Korea#...
coldtea 6y ago
>Migrants, even illegal migrants, in the United States DO have rights. The bill of rights covers all people in our country, whether they are undocumented, tourists, students, or whatever. If you abuse them, they may be deported, but you can be prosecuted and serve prison time for abusing them. This means they will have to weight-in the deportation cost to them. So they have half-rights compared to someone who doesn't have to be concerned with that...
standardUser 6y ago
I hope people understand that this is exactly why sanctuary city policies and government identification for undocumented individuals is so important. If an individual does not feel safe seeking recourse from the government, they are not capable of exercising the rights they do have in the US.
TomSwirly 6y ago
Theoretically having rights, and actually being able to take advantage of those rights, are two very different things. For example, if the asylum seekers during Trump had been able to take advantage of their rights, they would not have had their children stolen from them.

m463 6y ago

You should read about migrants from central or south america - what they go through while traveling through intervening countries and mexico and then coyotes. And deportation back to that is a real threat which means they will shut up in the US. EDIT: wasn't picking on the US, just saying it's only part of their journey, and once they're in the US, lots of stuff goes unreported.

rgbrenner 6y ago
There is a power imbalance between the employer and an illegal immigrant... they can certainly push that further than they could with a us citizen, but since they do have rights, there are limits to the abuse. The immigrant always has a way out, with the worst case penalty being deportation. Additionally: - In some cities ("sanctuary cities"), reporting a crime does not lead to deportation. - They can also apply for amnesty if the conditions in their home country are that bad. - Agencies accept anonymous reports. The immigrant doesnt even need to be working at the place at the time of the report. So depending on the circumstances of the abuse, there may be no consequences to the illegal immigrant for reporting.
pseudo0 6y ago
Sounds like the real issue is the pull factor of lax immigration enforcement and widespread under the table employment in the US. We should be emulating the Australian model which has saved thousands of lives by effectively deterring dangerous human trafficking. With robust work visa verification and strict border security, coyotes and other human traffickers would be put out of business. Solve the problem of employers hiring illegal immigrants, and the issue of these employers abusing the inherent power imbalance disappears as well.
- Larrikin 6y ago
  Its a politcally untenable position on both sides sadly in the US. If employers were fined 2x, 3x, 4x salary for every single employee found to be working under the table the issue would solve itself. But democrats are of the position that people over staying their visas, illegally immigrating, are as an entire group people who will be killed if they go home so will do nothing to actually make life more difficult for people who do those things. Pro business republicans are happy to allow their constituents to get a leg up in their businesses off the back of immigrants before they deport them so the immigrants can't use any public services.
  - ceph_ 6y ago
    Republican businesses owners like trump love illegal immigrant labor because it's another thing they can hang over their head. If they start organizing or complaining they can just anonymously tip ICE about the workers and suddenly their problem is solved. When they say they want to punish immigration they mean punish immigrants.
  - pseudo0 6y ago
    Yeah, I doubt it'll be solved anytime soon, given how Democrats see it as a way to gain future votes, and corporate Republicans use it to privatize gains and socialize costs. Paying someone under minimum wage while they collect far more in government services than they pay in taxes is a classic example of abusing unpriced externalities.

ben_w 6y ago

I lack the perspective to say if the following point applies in this case, but one must not assume that what is written into law or constitution is what actually happens. To give a deliberately extreme example, Wikipedia says this about the Constitution of North Korea: """Citizens have the right to elect and be elected (Article 66), freedom of speech, the press, assembly, demonstration and association (Article 67), freedom of religious belief (Article 68), right to submit complaints and petitions (Article 69), right to work (Article 70), right to relaxation (Article 71), right to free medical care (Article 72), right to education (Article 73), freedom in scientific, literary and artistic pursuits (Article 74), freedom of residence and travel (Article 75) and inviolability of the person and home and privacy of correspondence (Article 79).""" - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_North_Korea#1948_People's_Constitution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_North_Korea#...

coldtea 6y ago

>Migrants, even illegal migrants, in the United States DO have rights. The bill of rights covers all people in our country, whether they are undocumented, tourists, students, or whatever. If you abuse them, they may be deported, but you can be prosecuted and serve prison time for abusing them. This means they will have to weight-in the deportation cost to them. So they have half-rights compared to someone who doesn't have to be concerned with that...

standardUser 6y ago

I hope people understand that this is exactly why sanctuary city policies and government identification for undocumented individuals is so important. If an individual does not feel safe seeking recourse from the government, they are not capable of exercising the rights they do have in the US.

TomSwirly 6y ago

Theoretically having rights, and actually being able to take advantage of those rights, are two very different things. For example, if the asylum seekers during Trump had been able to take advantage of their rights, they would not have had their children stolen from them.