6 ms·

But when? Immediately? As somebody who has worked abroad myself I wouldn't think it appropriate if I suddenly was granted citizenship in a country for just work

But when? Immediately? As somebody who has worked abroad myself I wouldn't think it appropriate if I suddenly was granted citizenship in a country for just working there for a few years. There should always be a path to citizenship, but I think it is reasonable that you have to live somewhere a decade or so and show that you have a basic understanding of the culture and language first.

Ericson2314 6y ago
I'm pretty materialist. So let's igmore culture/language: if you have a job, they are getting benefits of your presence immediately. So shouldn't you get some franchise immediately? If you don't vote, aren't you effectively a scab on democracy? The US is kinda hypocritical in that on one hand there is a tacit desire to lord it over non-citizens, and in the other hand there is a vocal concern about exacerbating the glut of labor. Well, an individual American can't have it both ways: you're either a net worker or net owner.
- Ericson2314 6y ago
  Another nest trick, what if instead of waiting to accrue the franchise, there was a way to retroactively remove the franchise of those that leave. Why should the past rule over the future?
  - chmod600 6y ago
    What do you mean exactly and how would that work?
    - Ericson2314 6y ago
      I don't really know how that would work. But I could imagine a partial implementation would be automatically triggering recall elections if enough voters for the victor moved away before the victor's term was up.
michaelmrose 6y ago
You are thinking of you having a great boon where you are in a position to put onerous conditions upon it. Historically we have actually benefited greatly from being a top destination for immigrants and aquired a lot of talent and may wish ultimately that someone else hadn't skimmed the cream while we make it hard. I think that the primary requirements ought to be not being a criminal where you come from. People who go to school here ought to be offered citizenship at graduation others ought to wait a year. Even the folks that sneak over to work here illegally commit fewer crimes than natives as it stands. Our birth rate is less than replacement and our density is a fraction of Europes.
bjelkeman-again 6y ago
In Sweden, for example someone from Iceland (2 years) and Ireland (5 years) can get citizenship "by just working there for a few years". Immediately I don't think happens many places, but less than a decade does.
- retrac 6y ago
  Everyone who has permanent residency in Canada has a path to apply for citizenship, in principle. I do feel that is reasonable, even morally necessary. In practice it typically takes about 7 years from landing.
- brabel 6y ago
  In Sweden, if you're from outside the EU, you can get citizenship after 5 years working in the country. I believe that for EU citizens it's less than that. In many other countries, like Australia and (I think?) Canada, for example, one can become a citizen after 4 years living and working in the country.
  - BryanBigs 6y ago
    Legally. I don't believe the path to citizenship is paved if you are working and staying in either of those countries illegally. Both Australia and Canada are quite picky on whom they let in. It's points based, supposed to be fit to the needs of the country. For giggles, I took my score for Canada. As a middle-aged individual, I wouldn't be able to get in under the normal program even while nearly topping out most other categories (I speak English and French, have advanced degrees, etc). Of course, you can buy your way in to almost any country.
    - brabel 6y ago
      I was talking about legal immigrants. If you're caught illegally in Australia you're basically immediately deported even if you've managed to stay in the country illegally for many years. There were some notorious cases of people being deported after 20 years in the country (not sure if the outcry from their supporters actually stopped any deportation)... Sweden is almost as dacronian. It is known to deport parents of children born in Sweden (who are legally Swedish citizens) because they were illegally in the country.
chmod600 6y ago
What about multi-generaltional requirements, like "one of your parents must have been born here"? Also, it gets complex when discussing illegal immigration. What if an immigrant is laying low for an extended time? Is it different if the host country looks the other way and doesn't really enforce the laws, because some sectors benefit from the cheaper labor?

Ericson2314 6y ago

I'm pretty materialist. So let's igmore culture/language: if you have a job, they are getting benefits of your presence immediately. So shouldn't you get some franchise immediately? If you don't vote, aren't you effectively a scab on democracy? The US is kinda hypocritical in that on one hand there is a tacit desire to lord it over non-citizens, and in the other hand there is a vocal concern about exacerbating the glut of labor. Well, an individual American can't have it both ways: you're either a net worker or net owner.

Ericson2314 6y ago
Another nest trick, what if instead of waiting to accrue the franchise, there was a way to retroactively remove the franchise of those that leave. Why should the past rule over the future?
- chmod600 6y ago
  What do you mean exactly and how would that work?
  - Ericson2314 6y ago
    I don't really know how that would work. But I could imagine a partial implementation would be automatically triggering recall elections if enough voters for the victor moved away before the victor's term was up.

michaelmrose 6y ago

You are thinking of you having a great boon where you are in a position to put onerous conditions upon it. Historically we have actually benefited greatly from being a top destination for immigrants and aquired a lot of talent and may wish ultimately that someone else hadn't skimmed the cream while we make it hard. I think that the primary requirements ought to be not being a criminal where you come from. People who go to school here ought to be offered citizenship at graduation others ought to wait a year. Even the folks that sneak over to work here illegally commit fewer crimes than natives as it stands. Our birth rate is less than replacement and our density is a fraction of Europes.

bjelkeman-again 6y ago

In Sweden, for example someone from Iceland (2 years) and Ireland (5 years) can get citizenship "by just working there for a few years". Immediately I don't think happens many places, but less than a decade does.

retrac 6y ago
Everyone who has permanent residency in Canada has a path to apply for citizenship, in principle. I do feel that is reasonable, even morally necessary. In practice it typically takes about 7 years from landing.
brabel 6y ago
In Sweden, if you're from outside the EU, you can get citizenship after 5 years working in the country. I believe that for EU citizens it's less than that. In many other countries, like Australia and (I think?) Canada, for example, one can become a citizen after 4 years living and working in the country.
- BryanBigs 6y ago
  Legally. I don't believe the path to citizenship is paved if you are working and staying in either of those countries illegally. Both Australia and Canada are quite picky on whom they let in. It's points based, supposed to be fit to the needs of the country. For giggles, I took my score for Canada. As a middle-aged individual, I wouldn't be able to get in under the normal program even while nearly topping out most other categories (I speak English and French, have advanced degrees, etc). Of course, you can buy your way in to almost any country.
  - brabel 6y ago
    I was talking about legal immigrants. If you're caught illegally in Australia you're basically immediately deported even if you've managed to stay in the country illegally for many years. There were some notorious cases of people being deported after 20 years in the country (not sure if the outcry from their supporters actually stopped any deportation)... Sweden is almost as dacronian. It is known to deport parents of children born in Sweden (who are legally Swedish citizens) because they were illegally in the country.

chmod600 6y ago

What about multi-generaltional requirements, like "one of your parents must have been born here"? Also, it gets complex when discussing illegal immigration. What if an immigrant is laying low for an extended time? Is it different if the host country looks the other way and doesn't really enforce the laws, because some sectors benefit from the cheaper labor?