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I agree with this. In my opinion, if you have to state multiple times in your plan that what you're planning isn't illegal/manipulation, it's very grey at best

I agree with this. In my opinion, if you have to state multiple times in your plan that what you're planning isn't illegal/manipulation, it's very grey at best. The fact that one of the premises presented here for the price going up is "We buy a bunch of options, to force (ie, manipulate) someone else into buying the stock, so that the price can go up" doesn't boad well for a "it's not market manipuation" argument either. Straight from this post: > It looks like this: RH Call Option buying -> MM Delta hedging/share purchase -> short squeezing -> Greater retail/RHers price action chasing/call option buying -> MM Delta hedging/share purchase -> short squeezing -> Institutional and new channels flip the script -> GME to $400+ They've presented a chain of events that starts only with "We try to buy a lot of it", has a bunch of "other people have to buy based directly on our actions", they even through in a "other people see the price going up and try to pile in" (ie, screw the rest of retail). > the extent of their sympathy for the little guy will determine the outcome I don't see the masses of people ending up facing consequences here. I wouldn't be surprised if a group of WSB pushers who made out like bandits do see consequences. I also think it's going to be difficult to consider them the little guy if they make a bunch of money, and the much larger mass of non-WSB retail lose their shirts.

swimfar 6y ago
" if you have to state multiple times in your plan that what you're planning isn't illegal/manipulation, it's very grey at best." I don't think this is logical. One could also say, "If people are accusing you of doing something illegal/manipulative and you don't respond by stating that it's not illegal, it's very grey at best."
vagrantJin 6y ago
> much larger mass of non-WSB retail lose their shirts. Can we agree this is hyperbole?
- anonuser123456 6y ago
  Serious question? Why is that hyperbole? The SEC could step in to resolve the squeeze and everyone who bought at 350 left holding the bag when the price drops to 30.
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  Do you expect that every single person who has bought GME stock in the last week is going to be able to sell it for (currently) $325? Do you think that people who bought $200/share option contracts this week are all going to end up with 100 shares that they are going to be able to sell for $525 each?
fountainofage 6y ago
Why is publicly saying "hey, a few companies are selling shorts of gamestop and trying to drive it into the ground, I think that's bullshit. If you think it's bullshit, too, here's how you could do something about it." such a questionable thing to say and do? Do you also want cancer charities to stop asking for donations? Should start up founders not be allowed to ask for investor money? I could totally see the market manipulation argument if this was done in backrooms, with multiple accounts to hide the moves, several shell corporations holding the funds, etc. But these folks are publicly declaring their intent. And the first person to uncover the gamestop shorts has been saying it for over a year. Out in the open with frequent updates. The short sellers have had a year to get out and leave the company alone, but they were so obsessed with watching a company die that people got pissed and wanted some blood. The chain of events doesn't start with "we buy a lot and blah blah blah" - the chain of events starts with someone declaring over a year ago "fuck these guys for going all in on destroying a quality company for no reason other than the lulz."
- snet0 6y ago
  I think the fact this discussion is so back-and-forth, with nobody being absolutely confident that this behaviour either is or is not market manipulation is interesting. To me, it points out that either a) nobody in these conversations knows anything or b) the laws themselves are inadequately described. Surely a large group of people getting together and saying "GME is way too shorted, buy buy buy and don't sell until $5k" should either be absolutely definitely market manipulation, or absolutely definitely not?
  - sircastor 6y ago
    > the laws themselves are inadequately described. This. I recall seeing a post recently that essentially said that any action could be construed as securities law violation.
  - thatguy0900 6y ago
    Is it that the laws are inadequately described, or just not really enforced? Most of the arguments for it not being market manipulation are just pointing to other obvious market manipulation that was never policed. If this was two hedge funds going after each other would anyone care?
DaniloDias 6y ago
>>In my opinion, if you have to state multiple times in your plan that what you're planning isn't illegal/manipulation, it's very grey at best. Where is that done? I think you’re confusing everyone’s ‘this is not financial advice’ shenanigans with “this is not illegal.”

swimfar 6y ago

" if you have to state multiple times in your plan that what you're planning isn't illegal/manipulation, it's very grey at best." I don't think this is logical. One could also say, "If people are accusing you of doing something illegal/manipulative and you don't respond by stating that it's not illegal, it's very grey at best."

vagrantJin 6y ago

> much larger mass of non-WSB retail lose their shirts. Can we agree this is hyperbole?

anonuser123456 6y ago
Serious question? Why is that hyperbole? The SEC could step in to resolve the squeeze and everyone who bought at 350 left holding the bag when the price drops to 30.
nrmitchi 6y ago
Do you expect that every single person who has bought GME stock in the last week is going to be able to sell it for (currently) $325? Do you think that people who bought $200/share option contracts this week are all going to end up with 100 shares that they are going to be able to sell for $525 each?

fountainofage 6y ago

Why is publicly saying "hey, a few companies are selling shorts of gamestop and trying to drive it into the ground, I think that's bullshit. If you think it's bullshit, too, here's how you could do something about it." such a questionable thing to say and do? Do you also want cancer charities to stop asking for donations? Should start up founders not be allowed to ask for investor money? I could totally see the market manipulation argument if this was done in backrooms, with multiple accounts to hide the moves, several shell corporations holding the funds, etc. But these folks are publicly declaring their intent. And the first person to uncover the gamestop shorts has been saying it for over a year. Out in the open with frequent updates. The short sellers have had a year to get out and leave the company alone, but they were so obsessed with watching a company die that people got pissed and wanted some blood. The chain of events doesn't start with "we buy a lot and blah blah blah" - the chain of events starts with someone declaring over a year ago "fuck these guys for going all in on destroying a quality company for no reason other than the lulz."

snet0 6y ago
I think the fact this discussion is so back-and-forth, with nobody being absolutely confident that this behaviour either is or is not market manipulation is interesting. To me, it points out that either a) nobody in these conversations knows anything or b) the laws themselves are inadequately described. Surely a large group of people getting together and saying "GME is way too shorted, buy buy buy and don't sell until $5k" should either be absolutely definitely market manipulation, or absolutely definitely not?
- sircastor 6y ago
  > the laws themselves are inadequately described. This. I recall seeing a post recently that essentially said that any action could be construed as securities law violation.
- thatguy0900 6y ago
  Is it that the laws are inadequately described, or just not really enforced? Most of the arguments for it not being market manipulation are just pointing to other obvious market manipulation that was never policed. If this was two hedge funds going after each other would anyone care?

DaniloDias 6y ago

>>In my opinion, if you have to state multiple times in your plan that what you're planning isn't illegal/manipulation, it's very grey at best. Where is that done? I think you’re confusing everyone’s ‘this is not financial advice’ shenanigans with “this is not illegal.”