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EU need those countries mainly because of cheap workforce, army and to create this buffer between Central Europe and Russia. EU cannot afford to loose the 8th

EU need those countries mainly because of cheap workforce, army and to create this buffer between Central Europe and Russia. EU cannot afford to loose the 8th strongest army of Europe and have it potentially getting aligned with Russia. It would be a disaster for Germany, to have Poland as enemy right now and have them doing military exercises together with Russia some km from the Germany/Poland border. Yes, Poland has a strong aversion to Russia, but being kicked out from EU, would force them to search for new partners, and Poland, together with Belarus, would open a tunnel from Moscow to Berlin. Germany dont want it. Russia would do everything to have it. Another point is that a lot of sectors in Germany depends heavily on Polish workforce, specially in the border region like Brandenburg, Saxony and Mecklenburg Vorpommern. > The EU states are too diverse right now in terms of > values and economy. Hard to effectively lead such a bunch. That´s exactly one of the main complains from Hungary and Poland, regarding migration. A diverse country in terms of values is hard to lead. So in that matters you are pretty well aligned with them.

monopoledance 6y ago
> EU cannot afford to loose the 8th strongest army of Europe and have it potentially getting aligned with Russia. I very much doubt Poland would align with Russia. They hate them since forever. Poland should be given the choice to play by the law and value human rights or see what nationalism is worth without the EU. They won't leave. They will follow. They have much, much more to lose. > EU need those countries mainly because of cheap workforce Who "needs" what? Exploiting cheap labor from Poland only works for Germany, because legal working standards and payment is allowing for this. German people would benefit too, if general exploitation was fought against. If we tax industries according to their societal, environmental or climate damge, e.g. carbon tax, we can redefine our "dependencies". We don't need cheap farm workers, if we cut the meat industry; we would have much, much, much less demand in labor, land and energy, going for a mostly plant-based food production. Mass meat production is only viable because it's subsidized by the government and it's environmental/climate impact collectivized. The industry needs cheap workforce. Capitalism needs a cheap workforce. Economic growth and exploitation of natural ressources needs a cheap workforce. If we want to survive the shitshow ahead, a lot of things need to change. Compromising with populism and cultural degeneration is contra-productive.
- pelasaco 6y ago
  > I very much doubt Poland would align with Russia. They hate them since forever. Germany and France were eternal enemies too. Now we cannot imagine Europe without both countries. If we kick Poland out of EU, the anti-EU sentiment will grow and Russia will be the only available partner in the region. At the same time Poland will have a strategic card in their hand. So they will do what they have to do. Look the numbers look like: "Intra-EU trade accounts for 80% of Poland’s exports (Germany 28%, Czechia and France both 6%), while outside the EU 3% go to both Russia and the United States. In terms of imports, 69% come from EU Member States (Germany 27%, the Netherlands 6% and Italy 5%), while outside the EU 8% come from China and 7% from Russia." So if EU kicks Poland out, who are going to be the next partners? > Who "needs" what? Exploiting cheap labor from Poland only works for Germany, because legal working standards and payment is allowing for this. German people would benefit too, if general exploitation was fought against. That's just populism. > The industry needs cheap workforce. Capitalism needs a cheap workforce. Economic growth and exploitation of natural ressources needs a cheap workforce. > If we want to survive the shitshow ahead, a lot of things need to change. Compromising with populism and cultural degeneration is contra-productive. That's just populism too. So IMO, you want to fight populism with populism and fight for diversity, killing the cultural diversity in Europe.
  - monopoledance 6y ago
    I am not advocating for "kicking poland out", but giving it a choice or rather impose penalties for it feasting on the imagery of EU as enemy and shit. Membership comes with rules Poland isn't following. Either get in line or get out. I am saying it's in Poland's interest to play along. Hungary on the other hand is probably fucked beyond at this point. > So IMO, you want to fight populism with populism and fight for diversity, killing the cultural diversity in Europe. You mean the cultural diversity of authoritarianism, workers exploitation and human rights violations? Yes, I would like to kill that.
    - pelasaco 6y ago
      > I am not advocating for "kicking poland out", You literally wrote: "I am pro-EU, but I think the authoritarian countries (Poland, Hungary) need to be kicked out or at least punished."

monopoledance 6y ago

> EU cannot afford to loose the 8th strongest army of Europe and have it potentially getting aligned with Russia. I very much doubt Poland would align with Russia. They hate them since forever. Poland should be given the choice to play by the law and value human rights or see what nationalism is worth without the EU. They won't leave. They will follow. They have much, much more to lose. > EU need those countries mainly because of cheap workforce Who "needs" what? Exploiting cheap labor from Poland only works for Germany, because legal working standards and payment is allowing for this. German people would benefit too, if general exploitation was fought against. If we tax industries according to their societal, environmental or climate damge, e.g. carbon tax, we can redefine our "dependencies". We don't need cheap farm workers, if we cut the meat industry; we would have much, much, much less demand in labor, land and energy, going for a mostly plant-based food production. Mass meat production is only viable because it's subsidized by the government and it's environmental/climate impact collectivized. The industry needs cheap workforce. Capitalism needs a cheap workforce. Economic growth and exploitation of natural ressources needs a cheap workforce. If we want to survive the shitshow ahead, a lot of things need to change. Compromising with populism and cultural degeneration is contra-productive.

pelasaco 6y ago
> I very much doubt Poland would align with Russia. They hate them since forever. Germany and France were eternal enemies too. Now we cannot imagine Europe without both countries. If we kick Poland out of EU, the anti-EU sentiment will grow and Russia will be the only available partner in the region. At the same time Poland will have a strategic card in their hand. So they will do what they have to do. Look the numbers look like: "Intra-EU trade accounts for 80% of Poland’s exports (Germany 28%, Czechia and France both 6%), while outside the EU 3% go to both Russia and the United States. In terms of imports, 69% come from EU Member States (Germany 27%, the Netherlands 6% and Italy 5%), while outside the EU 8% come from China and 7% from Russia." So if EU kicks Poland out, who are going to be the next partners? > Who "needs" what? Exploiting cheap labor from Poland only works for Germany, because legal working standards and payment is allowing for this. German people would benefit too, if general exploitation was fought against. That's just populism. > The industry needs cheap workforce. Capitalism needs a cheap workforce. Economic growth and exploitation of natural ressources needs a cheap workforce. > If we want to survive the shitshow ahead, a lot of things need to change. Compromising with populism and cultural degeneration is contra-productive. That's just populism too. So IMO, you want to fight populism with populism and fight for diversity, killing the cultural diversity in Europe.
- monopoledance 6y ago
  I am not advocating for "kicking poland out", but giving it a choice or rather impose penalties for it feasting on the imagery of EU as enemy and shit. Membership comes with rules Poland isn't following. Either get in line or get out. I am saying it's in Poland's interest to play along. Hungary on the other hand is probably fucked beyond at this point. > So IMO, you want to fight populism with populism and fight for diversity, killing the cultural diversity in Europe. You mean the cultural diversity of authoritarianism, workers exploitation and human rights violations? Yes, I would like to kill that.
  - pelasaco 6y ago
    > I am not advocating for "kicking poland out", You literally wrote: "I am pro-EU, but I think the authoritarian countries (Poland, Hungary) need to be kicked out or at least punished."