5 ms·

We had time of use in Ontario, but recently got rid of it. It hurts the poor more than it saves electricity. 4-9pm might be the only time I have to do laundry

by jbob2000 6y ago

We had time of use in Ontario, but recently got rid of it. It hurts the poor more than it saves electricity. 4-9pm might be the only time I have to do laundry and cook, two of the most energy intensive tasks, if I’m working a 9-5 job that requires me to be physically present. I can’t do it during the day and sometimes I can’t do it on the weekend because of other obligations. So now I’m landed with a “tax” that I have no ability to avoid. And then you drive to Rodeo drive, where stores have their doors wide open in 100 degree heat, while their AC is on full blast, and wonder why the fuck you’re stuck paying the energy tax.

nayuki 6y ago
Are you sure that laundry and cooking are your most energy-intensive activities? I live in a house in Toronto and have TOU pricing. After measuring my appliances with a Kill A Watt, I determined that when averaged over an entire year, about 1/3 of my energy usage was for the refrigerator, 1/3 for the HVAC fan (almost entirely for 6 months of winter heating), and 1/3 for literally everything else discretionary (lights, cooking, electronics). I doubt that TOU pricing negatively affected you as much as you perceived.
- jbob2000 6y ago
  The problem is that you measured energy usage for appliances that have non-discretionary use - ie. I don't get to decide when my fridge or HVAC turns on, that's a factor of the weather outside (for the most part...). Also, since fridges and HVAC fans run continuously, you end up with an averaged out price for energy. Laundry energy use can't be amortized like a fridge can. They use an extreme amount of energy in short bursts. If you time your laundry incorrectly in a TOU setting, you absolutely will have a larger energy bill. I know this because I've been burned by it. 9c/kwH (low TOU) vs. 14c (high) is more than a 50% price increase for a load of laundry.
  - djrogers 6y ago
    You absolutely do get to decide when your AC turns on - programmable thermostats have been a thing for something like 40 years...
  - adrianN 6y ago
    Greetings from Germany, where we pay 24 Eurocents per kWh and poor people still do laundry.
ghouse 6y ago
It's not an energy tax. Electricity is more expensive to produce and deliver during 4-9 PM. Flat rates subsidize use during 4-9 PM.
pengaru 6y ago
By me we already have deeply discounted low income household rates, it's trivial to qualify for and could exempt from TOU pricing if that's a problem.
cptskippy 6y ago
Why do you have to do your laundry between 4-9pm? I could see that if you used a shared space or laundromat but in those situations you aren't paying the power bill. Laundry is set it and forget it. It is regressive but at least in CA the reason is to discourage use because demand exceeds grid capacity and results in rolling blackouts. The alternative is to plan blackouts for parts of the grid during high demand times. Solar and battery are incentivized so many homes use zero power during peak times or backfeed power onto the grid.
caf 6y ago
It's reasonably common for washing machines to have a timer delay function, isn't it? I set mine to run during the off peak time, finishing before I wake up.

nayuki 6y ago

Are you sure that laundry and cooking are your most energy-intensive activities? I live in a house in Toronto and have TOU pricing. After measuring my appliances with a Kill A Watt, I determined that when averaged over an entire year, about 1/3 of my energy usage was for the refrigerator, 1/3 for the HVAC fan (almost entirely for 6 months of winter heating), and 1/3 for literally everything else discretionary (lights, cooking, electronics). I doubt that TOU pricing negatively affected you as much as you perceived.

jbob2000 6y ago
The problem is that you measured energy usage for appliances that have non-discretionary use - ie. I don't get to decide when my fridge or HVAC turns on, that's a factor of the weather outside (for the most part...). Also, since fridges and HVAC fans run continuously, you end up with an averaged out price for energy. Laundry energy use can't be amortized like a fridge can. They use an extreme amount of energy in short bursts. If you time your laundry incorrectly in a TOU setting, you absolutely will have a larger energy bill. I know this because I've been burned by it. 9c/kwH (low TOU) vs. 14c (high) is more than a 50% price increase for a load of laundry.
- djrogers 6y ago
  You absolutely do get to decide when your AC turns on - programmable thermostats have been a thing for something like 40 years...
- adrianN 6y ago
  Greetings from Germany, where we pay 24 Eurocents per kWh and poor people still do laundry.

ghouse 6y ago

It's not an energy tax. Electricity is more expensive to produce and deliver during 4-9 PM. Flat rates subsidize use during 4-9 PM.

pengaru 6y ago

By me we already have deeply discounted low income household rates, it's trivial to qualify for and could exempt from TOU pricing if that's a problem.

cptskippy 6y ago

Why do you have to do your laundry between 4-9pm? I could see that if you used a shared space or laundromat but in those situations you aren't paying the power bill. Laundry is set it and forget it. It is regressive but at least in CA the reason is to discourage use because demand exceeds grid capacity and results in rolling blackouts. The alternative is to plan blackouts for parts of the grid during high demand times. Solar and battery are incentivized so many homes use zero power during peak times or backfeed power onto the grid.

caf 6y ago

It's reasonably common for washing machines to have a timer delay function, isn't it? I set mine to run during the off peak time, finishing before I wake up.