4 ms·

One thing you should keep in mind is never to trust a narrative explanation of events and history. Human brains are hard wired to believe and think in narrative

by rapsey 6y ago

One thing you should keep in mind is never to trust a narrative explanation of events and history. Human brains are hard wired to believe and think in narratives. Reality however is not some grand story arc.

everybodyknows 6y ago
For a good read on selecting evidence to fit the desired narrative, try Richard Feynman’s critique of the Challenger investigation. In one of his as-told-to autobiographies: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0-393-01921-7 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0-393-01...
- olivermarks 6y ago
  Your ISBN link didn't arrive at Feynman's book, here it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Do_You_Care_What_Other_People_Think%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Do_You_Care_What_Other_Pe... Separately I loathe the lazy term 'conspiracy theory', which essentially means a suspicion that a secretive group of people have/are trying to conspire to take advantage. The term is endlessly used as a vague, dismissive pejorative of everything from investigative journalism the speaker/writer doesn't like to close down any sort of open ended questioning conversation. It's even abbreviated to 'conspiracy' which makes little sense.
  - Krasnol 6y ago
    I like the term "conspiracy myth". It spreads in Germany now and I find it's quite useful.
    - olivermarks 6y ago
      Why is that useful? The challenge with overuse of the term 'conspiracy' is that like the suddenly common term 'baseless' it all too often ignores conjecture based on facts and events that arouse suspicions. One man's hilariously mad tin foil hat conspiracy theorist is another man's investigative journalist...and imo opinion we can't have enough of those...
      - AndrewBissell 6y ago
        A really funny thing recently was various media dismissing "baseless conspiracy theories" about "the Great Reset," when there is clearly a very public and well documented foundation of various public officials using the term in the broader context of pushing certain agendas. One can still argue whether each of the various theories spun out of this is true or not, but it's silly to call them "baseless."
        Krasnol 6y ago
        Those "baseless conspiracy theories" which "various media" dismissed where the myths people build up around the term while it's original meaning is pretty straight and well defined. It even has a wikipedia page.
        AndrewBissell 6y ago
        "It even has a Wikipedia page." lol ok then case closed
        Krasnol 6y ago
        What exactly is wrong about that sentence that it made you laugh? Or is this a result of the Wikipedia conspiracy myth?
      - Krasnol 6y ago
        You're no investigative journalist if you claim that the holocaust did not happen and that the jews made it up. Also: it's not a "theory". A theory is something you can research and come up with a result based upon evidence. Therefore "conspiracy theory" is just just wrong. A "conspiracy myth" fits perfectly since it's a myth with a conspiracy in it's core. So saying that some fascists spread "conspiracy myths" about the holocaust makes sense while it legitimises their bs saying that they spread "conspiracy theories".
  - mistermann 6y ago
    > The term is endlessly used as a vague, dismissive pejorative of everything from investigative journalism the speaker/writer doesn't like to close down any sort of open ended questioning conversation. It's even abbreviated to 'conspiracy' which makes little sense. I would say that it also seems to be a sort of heuristic method that has been carefully planted in the minds of (I would estimate) well over 50% of the Western population, that can be remotely executed when needed (say, in news articles). It also has characteristics of self-reinforcement (social media, forums) and self-protection (observances of it can be dismissed simply by invoking it).
adamcstephens 6y ago
While I haven’t obviously seen this new series yet, this article portrays it to be about how our lack of collective narrative is holding us back. Perhaps we need to be open to new narratives, which will never be perfect, but can help us move toward a better future. From what I’ve learned, narratives are not the only sources to withhold trust from. Information presented as fact or truth from seemingly reputable sources also should receive the same critical thought.
bmitc 6y ago
I keep that in mind, as already alluded to, but I disagree because sometimes there is an actual narrative. That’s the difficulty I was mentioning.

by rapsey 6y ago

everybodyknows 6y ago

For a good read on selecting evidence to fit the desired narrative, try Richard Feynman’s critique of the Challenger investigation. In one of his as-told-to autobiographies: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0-393-01921-7 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0-393-01...

olivermarks 6y ago
Your ISBN link didn't arrive at Feynman's book, here it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Do_You_Care_What_Other_People_Think%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Do_You_Care_What_Other_Pe... Separately I loathe the lazy term 'conspiracy theory', which essentially means a suspicion that a secretive group of people have/are trying to conspire to take advantage. The term is endlessly used as a vague, dismissive pejorative of everything from investigative journalism the speaker/writer doesn't like to close down any sort of open ended questioning conversation. It's even abbreviated to 'conspiracy' which makes little sense.
- Krasnol 6y ago
  I like the term "conspiracy myth". It spreads in Germany now and I find it's quite useful.
  - olivermarks 6y ago
    Why is that useful? The challenge with overuse of the term 'conspiracy' is that like the suddenly common term 'baseless' it all too often ignores conjecture based on facts and events that arouse suspicions. One man's hilariously mad tin foil hat conspiracy theorist is another man's investigative journalist...and imo opinion we can't have enough of those...
    - AndrewBissell 6y ago
      A really funny thing recently was various media dismissing "baseless conspiracy theories" about "the Great Reset," when there is clearly a very public and well documented foundation of various public officials using the term in the broader context of pushing certain agendas. One can still argue whether each of the various theories spun out of this is true or not, but it's silly to call them "baseless."
      - Krasnol 6y ago
        Those "baseless conspiracy theories" which "various media" dismissed where the myths people build up around the term while it's original meaning is pretty straight and well defined. It even has a wikipedia page.
        AndrewBissell 6y ago
        "It even has a Wikipedia page." lol ok then case closed
        Krasnol 6y ago
        What exactly is wrong about that sentence that it made you laugh? Or is this a result of the Wikipedia conspiracy myth?
    - Krasnol 6y ago
      You're no investigative journalist if you claim that the holocaust did not happen and that the jews made it up. Also: it's not a "theory". A theory is something you can research and come up with a result based upon evidence. Therefore "conspiracy theory" is just just wrong. A "conspiracy myth" fits perfectly since it's a myth with a conspiracy in it's core. So saying that some fascists spread "conspiracy myths" about the holocaust makes sense while it legitimises their bs saying that they spread "conspiracy theories".
- mistermann 6y ago
  > The term is endlessly used as a vague, dismissive pejorative of everything from investigative journalism the speaker/writer doesn't like to close down any sort of open ended questioning conversation. It's even abbreviated to 'conspiracy' which makes little sense. I would say that it also seems to be a sort of heuristic method that has been carefully planted in the minds of (I would estimate) well over 50% of the Western population, that can be remotely executed when needed (say, in news articles). It also has characteristics of self-reinforcement (social media, forums) and self-protection (observances of it can be dismissed simply by invoking it).

adamcstephens 6y ago

While I haven’t obviously seen this new series yet, this article portrays it to be about how our lack of collective narrative is holding us back. Perhaps we need to be open to new narratives, which will never be perfect, but can help us move toward a better future. From what I’ve learned, narratives are not the only sources to withhold trust from. Information presented as fact or truth from seemingly reputable sources also should receive the same critical thought.

bmitc 6y ago

I keep that in mind, as already alluded to, but I disagree because sometimes there is an actual narrative. That’s the difficulty I was mentioning.