4 ms·

I really enjoy Adam Curtis’ documentaries. He hits the nail on the head and is great viewing for anyone that likes systems level thinking. I’m looking forward t

by bmitc 6y ago

I really enjoy Adam Curtis’ documentaries. He hits the nail on the head and is great viewing for anyone that likes systems level thinking. I’m looking forward to his new film and have seen most of his prior films. One curious thing is that after watching his documentaries, I do find myself a bit confused about what it all means. His theories weave sometimes complex narratives, and it’s a lot to take in. I think the hardest thing to reconcile is the intent of the people behind or at least catalyze the phenomena that arise. Is the world essentially driven by emergent incompetence and narcissism or is there something more sinister and intentional about it all?

rapsey 6y ago
One thing you should keep in mind is never to trust a narrative explanation of events and history. Human brains are hard wired to believe and think in narratives. Reality however is not some grand story arc.
- everybodyknows 6y ago
  For a good read on selecting evidence to fit the desired narrative, try Richard Feynman’s critique of the Challenger investigation. In one of his as-told-to autobiographies: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0-393-01921-7 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0-393-01...
  - olivermarks 6y ago
    Your ISBN link didn't arrive at Feynman's book, here it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Do_You_Care_What_Other_People_Think%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Do_You_Care_What_Other_Pe... Separately I loathe the lazy term 'conspiracy theory', which essentially means a suspicion that a secretive group of people have/are trying to conspire to take advantage. The term is endlessly used as a vague, dismissive pejorative of everything from investigative journalism the speaker/writer doesn't like to close down any sort of open ended questioning conversation. It's even abbreviated to 'conspiracy' which makes little sense.
    - Krasnol 6y ago
      I like the term "conspiracy myth". It spreads in Germany now and I find it's quite useful.
      - olivermarks 6y ago
        Why is that useful? The challenge with overuse of the term 'conspiracy' is that like the suddenly common term 'baseless' it all too often ignores conjecture based on facts and events that arouse suspicions. One man's hilariously mad tin foil hat conspiracy theorist is another man's investigative journalist...and imo opinion we can't have enough of those...
        AndrewBissell 6y ago
        A really funny thing recently was various media dismissing "baseless conspiracy theories" about "the Great Reset," when there is clearly a very public and well documented foundation of various public officials using the term in the broader context of pushing certain agendas. One can still argue whether each of the various theories spun out of this is true or not, but it's silly to call them "baseless."
        Krasnol 6y ago
        Those "baseless conspiracy theories" which "various media" dismissed where the myths people build up around the term while it's original meaning is pretty straight and well defined. It even has a wikipedia page.
        AndrewBissell 6y ago
        "It even has a Wikipedia page." lol ok then case closed
        Krasnol 6y ago
        What exactly is wrong about that sentence that it made you laugh? Or is this a result of the Wikipedia conspiracy myth?
- adamcstephens 6y ago
  While I haven’t obviously seen this new series yet, this article portrays it to be about how our lack of collective narrative is holding us back. Perhaps we need to be open to new narratives, which will never be perfect, but can help us move toward a better future. From what I’ve learned, narratives are not the only sources to withhold trust from. Information presented as fact or truth from seemingly reputable sources also should receive the same critical thought.
- bmitc 6y ago
  I keep that in mind, as already alluded to, but I disagree because sometimes there is an actual narrative. That’s the difficulty I was mentioning.
AndrewBissell 6y ago
Some threads to follow if you are interested in pursuing the "intentional" angle: - Michael Aquino and PSYOP/MindWar - Project MKULTRA and its connections to certain mass phenomena such as widespread distribution of LSD in counterculture circles in the 1960s, or even to domestic television programming: https://twitter.com/paulkleinfancam/status/1301197890887602177 https://twitter.com/paulkleinfancam/status/13011978908876021... - Iran/Contra and the War on Drugs as a stark example of "playing both sides," i.e. trafficking drugs into the U.S. and whipping up public panic and domestic military crackdown in response. I find this to be a particularly case where intentionality is hard to dismiss in favor of incompetence because so many of the players are present on both "sides" of the operation - Brian Hayden's examination of the role of secret societies in indigenous civilizations, where it has been observed that an occulted elite of "aggrandizers" would use various means of terror and ritual to control the mass of people to direct wealth and power to themselves (article here: https://www.templeton.org/grant/the-role-of-religion-in-social-change-the-case-of-secret-society-religions https://www.templeton.org/grant/the-role-of-religion-in-soci... podcast here: https://auticulture.com/the-liminalist-223-the-arrival-of-the-aggrandizers-with-brian-hayden/ https://auticulture.com/the-liminalist-223-the-arrival-of-th...)

by bmitc 6y ago

rapsey 6y ago

One thing you should keep in mind is never to trust a narrative explanation of events and history. Human brains are hard wired to believe and think in narratives. Reality however is not some grand story arc.

everybodyknows 6y ago
For a good read on selecting evidence to fit the desired narrative, try Richard Feynman’s critique of the Challenger investigation. In one of his as-told-to autobiographies: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0-393-01921-7 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0-393-01...
- olivermarks 6y ago
  Your ISBN link didn't arrive at Feynman's book, here it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Do_You_Care_What_Other_People_Think%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Do_You_Care_What_Other_Pe... Separately I loathe the lazy term 'conspiracy theory', which essentially means a suspicion that a secretive group of people have/are trying to conspire to take advantage. The term is endlessly used as a vague, dismissive pejorative of everything from investigative journalism the speaker/writer doesn't like to close down any sort of open ended questioning conversation. It's even abbreviated to 'conspiracy' which makes little sense.
  - Krasnol 6y ago
    I like the term "conspiracy myth". It spreads in Germany now and I find it's quite useful.
    - olivermarks 6y ago
      Why is that useful? The challenge with overuse of the term 'conspiracy' is that like the suddenly common term 'baseless' it all too often ignores conjecture based on facts and events that arouse suspicions. One man's hilariously mad tin foil hat conspiracy theorist is another man's investigative journalist...and imo opinion we can't have enough of those...
      - AndrewBissell 6y ago
        A really funny thing recently was various media dismissing "baseless conspiracy theories" about "the Great Reset," when there is clearly a very public and well documented foundation of various public officials using the term in the broader context of pushing certain agendas. One can still argue whether each of the various theories spun out of this is true or not, but it's silly to call them "baseless."
        Krasnol 6y ago
        Those "baseless conspiracy theories" which "various media" dismissed where the myths people build up around the term while it's original meaning is pretty straight and well defined. It even has a wikipedia page.
        AndrewBissell 6y ago
        "It even has a Wikipedia page." lol ok then case closed
        Krasnol 6y ago
        What exactly is wrong about that sentence that it made you laugh? Or is this a result of the Wikipedia conspiracy myth?
adamcstephens 6y ago
While I haven’t obviously seen this new series yet, this article portrays it to be about how our lack of collective narrative is holding us back. Perhaps we need to be open to new narratives, which will never be perfect, but can help us move toward a better future. From what I’ve learned, narratives are not the only sources to withhold trust from. Information presented as fact or truth from seemingly reputable sources also should receive the same critical thought.
bmitc 6y ago
I keep that in mind, as already alluded to, but I disagree because sometimes there is an actual narrative. That’s the difficulty I was mentioning.

AndrewBissell 6y ago

Some threads to follow if you are interested in pursuing the "intentional" angle: - Michael Aquino and PSYOP/MindWar - Project MKULTRA and its connections to certain mass phenomena such as widespread distribution of LSD in counterculture circles in the 1960s, or even to domestic television programming: https://twitter.com/paulkleinfancam/status/1301197890887602177 https://twitter.com/paulkleinfancam/status/13011978908876021... - Iran/Contra and the War on Drugs as a stark example of "playing both sides," i.e. trafficking drugs into the U.S. and whipping up public panic and domestic military crackdown in response. I find this to be a particularly case where intentionality is hard to dismiss in favor of incompetence because so many of the players are present on both "sides" of the operation - Brian Hayden's examination of the role of secret societies in indigenous civilizations, where it has been observed that an occulted elite of "aggrandizers" would use various means of terror and ritual to control the mass of people to direct wealth and power to themselves (article here: https://www.templeton.org/grant/the-role-of-religion-in-social-change-the-case-of-secret-society-religions https://www.templeton.org/grant/the-role-of-religion-in-soci... podcast here: https://auticulture.com/the-liminalist-223-the-arrival-of-the-aggrandizers-with-brian-hayden/ https://auticulture.com/the-liminalist-223-the-arrival-of-th...)