6 ms·

Oneness via gurus, psychedelics and the hidden code in Jordan Mechner's Karateka

38 points by schmudde 6y ago

PragmaticPulp 6y ago
From the article: > Ram Dass spends the first part of the book describing his journey. It involves a dive into the world of psychedelic drugs and their benefits and limitations. His experience essentially opens him up to Eastern mysticism. There is some evidence that supports the notion that psychedelics increase openness to new ideas. This is the basis of psychedelic-assisted therapy, in which psychedelics are thought to make the patient more open to accepting the therapy intervention while unlearning their previously unhealthy thought patterns. However, that openness to new ideas is a double-edged sword. People who use psychedelics in uncontrolled environments with excessive frequency can pick up a lot of strange ideas along the way. Increasing one's openness to new ideas might be a good thing in the presence of a trained therapist or other well-meaning environments. However, it may become counterproductive in uncontrolled environments where users are prone to picking up conspiracy theories, new age mysticism, pseudoscience, or other misinformation that bombards us from all angles on modern social media. Modern news article about psychedelics skew heavily toward the positives while burying the risks and downsides. For example, many people glorify Kary Mullis, inventor of PCR and 1993 noble prize winner, for his love of LSD. Few people know that he also believed he talked to a glowing raccoon in the forest, was a climate change denier, and didn't believe that HIV was related to AIDS. Being too open to new ideas is not unilaterally positive.
- alan-crowe 6y ago
  There is a wonderfully written article, Why Were the Early Psychedelicists So Weird? https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psychedelicists-so-weird/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psyched... that expands on your important point.
- zwkrt 6y ago
  Definitely true. In my experience taking mushrooms when in a depressed state was transformative. My experience taking them when I’m doing well is that they tend to make me question parts of myself or society that I truly believe are useful and good. For instance, after a trip I found myself terrified of driving a car for an entire week, and I’m still somewhat uncomfortable with driving years later.
- mistermann 6y ago
  > Increasing one's openness to new ideas might be a good thing in the presence of a trained therapist or other well-meaning environments. However, it may become counterproductive in uncontrolled environments where users are prone to picking up conspiracy theories, new age mysticism, pseudoscience, or other misinformation that bombards us from all angles on modern social media. I wonder, might it be possible for you to add some quantitative information to this so readers have some idea what kind of a risk profile they're dealing with here? I spend a fair amount of time in various communities, and I've never picked up on any noteworthy abnormal tendencies toward conspiracy theories or pseudoscience - plenty of new age mysticism though, and the more the merrier I say (provided it's not too far out there, of course). > Modern news article about psychedelics skew heavily toward the positives while burying the risks and downsides. 99% of anything I've encountered in the community skews heavily toward the positives. I suppose it's possibile that all those who encounter problems disappear, never to be heard from again, but it seems fairly unlikely. Now and then you do encounter someone with symptoms of mania, but it's fairly rare, and it isn't guaranteed that their state is entirely due to psychedelics. Out of curiosity, where are you reading about all of these risks and downsides (I'd like to read up on the topic to broaden my horizons)? As for Ram Dass, I highly recommend checking out a few of his lectures on YouTube, this article really doesn't do him justice, at all. He's not for everyone, but those who like him tend to really like him, and I am one of those.
  - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
    This statement > I've never picked up on any noteworthy abnormal tendencies toward conspiracy theories or pseudoscience Is immediately contradicted by this statement: > - plenty of new age mysticism though, and the more the merrier I say (provided it's not too far out there, of course). This is a prime example of why self-reporting doesn't work. If someone holds a set of beliefs to be true, they won't identify them as pseudoscience, misinformation, or false.
    - mistermann 6y ago
      Ah, pardon me, I googled "new age mysticism" and it seems off, what I had in mind was more so things like Eastern religions, and general ideas about the oneness of the individual with humanity and the universe, that sort of thing. All of your allegations, these we shall accept as fact without evidence I take it?
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  Even the "controlled environment" might not be adequately controlled. People go to take ayahuasca in ceremonies with a guide who can supposedly keep them steady, but they still come out of the experience claiming that DMT really opens a portal to another dimension inhabited by godlike beings. Happened to two friends of mine (unknown to each other) who did the controlled ritual, and they get very offended at any suggestion that this psychedelic simply messes with one’s neuroreceptors for a time.
  - mistermann 6y ago
    > and they get very offended at any suggestion that this psychedelic simply messes with one’s neuroreceptors for a time Perhaps the "simply" doesn't belong in there - messing with neuroreceptors may be all it does at a biological level, but what happens at the neurological level when those neuroreceptors are messed with is not adequately covered by the word "simple". Neuroscience make no claim to have any kind of a sophisticated understanding of these other-wordly phenomenological experiences, so I'm not sure where you are getting information superior to that.
    - thewarrior 6y ago
      Well I would say it does actually a open a door to that dimension. It’s just that it’s latent in your brain and not necessarily an actual dimension. But this is also a deeper philosophical question around where things like numbers come from.
      - randmeerkat 6y ago
        > But this is also a deeper philosophical question around where things like numbers come from. Numbers come from people looking for a way to model the world and measure things...
        thewarrior 6y ago
        That doesn’t answer the question of whether the numbers exist in a separate Platonic realm. This question is as old as philosophy.
jnathsf 6y ago
I'm not sure the author read Ram Dass' book or knows of his life as the author mentions Buddhism several times but clearly Ram Dass is a Hindu (his name means servant of Ram, a Hindu god, and his guru was Hindu).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
exolymph 6y ago
All that which exists comprises a Whole, and you are a figment of that Whole. So am I, and we can speak to each other across our grand self. Isn't that neat?
odomojuli 6y ago
I tried looking up more information about this: https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/Mommy_and_I_are_one https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/Mommy_and_I_are_one "According to studies that determine the subconscious mind's ability to absorb subliminal messages, the subliminal phrase "Mommy and I are one" is considered the most effective subliminal message to aid in self motivation." How do you test if a subliminal message is effective? This part is interesting: In a game of darts, researchers found the the phrase "It's OK to beat dad" improved scores.
- sn41 6y ago
  Wow, this is the mother of all TILs. (Was that a Freudian slip, I wonder.)
- JohnBooty 6y ago
  “Mommy and I are one” is considered the most effective subliminal message to aid in self motivation. Suddenly, Evangelion makes sense now.
- agumonkey 6y ago
  I'd be curious about the opposite sex too. The notion of love (in the deepest) is surely one of the strongest source of mental energy there is for a human being.
fmakunbound 6y ago
Honestly, I can’t even make the morning stand-up without a 1g dose of shrooms, err in my coffee.
ve7da94 6y ago
Love it

38 points by schmudde 6y ago

From the article: > Ram Dass spends the first part of the book describing his journey. It involves a dive into the world of psychedelic drugs and their benefits and limitations. His experience essentially opens him up to Eastern mysticism. There is some evidence that supports the notion that psychedelics increase openness to new ideas. This is the basis of psychedelic-assisted therapy, in which psychedelics are thought to make the patient more open to accepting the therapy intervention while unlearning their previously unhealthy thought patterns. However, that openness to new ideas is a double-edged sword. People who use psychedelics in uncontrolled environments with excessive frequency can pick up a lot of strange ideas along the way. Increasing one's openness to new ideas might be a good thing in the presence of a trained therapist or other well-meaning environments. However, it may become counterproductive in uncontrolled environments where users are prone to picking up conspiracy theories, new age mysticism, pseudoscience, or other misinformation that bombards us from all angles on modern social media. Modern news article about psychedelics skew heavily toward the positives while burying the risks and downsides. For example, many people glorify Kary Mullis, inventor of PCR and 1993 noble prize winner, for his love of LSD. Few people know that he also believed he talked to a glowing raccoon in the forest, was a climate change denier, and didn't believe that HIV was related to AIDS. Being too open to new ideas is not unilaterally positive.

alan-crowe 6y ago
There is a wonderfully written article, Why Were the Early Psychedelicists So Weird? https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psychedelicists-so-weird/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psyched... that expands on your important point.
zwkrt 6y ago
Definitely true. In my experience taking mushrooms when in a depressed state was transformative. My experience taking them when I’m doing well is that they tend to make me question parts of myself or society that I truly believe are useful and good. For instance, after a trip I found myself terrified of driving a car for an entire week, and I’m still somewhat uncomfortable with driving years later.
mistermann 6y ago
> Increasing one's openness to new ideas might be a good thing in the presence of a trained therapist or other well-meaning environments. However, it may become counterproductive in uncontrolled environments where users are prone to picking up conspiracy theories, new age mysticism, pseudoscience, or other misinformation that bombards us from all angles on modern social media. I wonder, might it be possible for you to add some quantitative information to this so readers have some idea what kind of a risk profile they're dealing with here? I spend a fair amount of time in various communities, and I've never picked up on any noteworthy abnormal tendencies toward conspiracy theories or pseudoscience - plenty of new age mysticism though, and the more the merrier I say (provided it's not too far out there, of course). > Modern news article about psychedelics skew heavily toward the positives while burying the risks and downsides. 99% of anything I've encountered in the community skews heavily toward the positives. I suppose it's possibile that all those who encounter problems disappear, never to be heard from again, but it seems fairly unlikely. Now and then you do encounter someone with symptoms of mania, but it's fairly rare, and it isn't guaranteed that their state is entirely due to psychedelics. Out of curiosity, where are you reading about all of these risks and downsides (I'd like to read up on the topic to broaden my horizons)? As for Ram Dass, I highly recommend checking out a few of his lectures on YouTube, this article really doesn't do him justice, at all. He's not for everyone, but those who like him tend to really like him, and I am one of those.
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago
  This statement > I've never picked up on any noteworthy abnormal tendencies toward conspiracy theories or pseudoscience Is immediately contradicted by this statement: > - plenty of new age mysticism though, and the more the merrier I say (provided it's not too far out there, of course). This is a prime example of why self-reporting doesn't work. If someone holds a set of beliefs to be true, they won't identify them as pseudoscience, misinformation, or false.
  - mistermann 6y ago
    Ah, pardon me, I googled "new age mysticism" and it seems off, what I had in mind was more so things like Eastern religions, and general ideas about the oneness of the individual with humanity and the universe, that sort of thing. All of your allegations, these we shall accept as fact without evidence I take it?
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Even the "controlled environment" might not be adequately controlled. People go to take ayahuasca in ceremonies with a guide who can supposedly keep them steady, but they still come out of the experience claiming that DMT really opens a portal to another dimension inhabited by godlike beings. Happened to two friends of mine (unknown to each other) who did the controlled ritual, and they get very offended at any suggestion that this psychedelic simply messes with one’s neuroreceptors for a time.
- mistermann 6y ago
  > and they get very offended at any suggestion that this psychedelic simply messes with one’s neuroreceptors for a time Perhaps the "simply" doesn't belong in there - messing with neuroreceptors may be all it does at a biological level, but what happens at the neurological level when those neuroreceptors are messed with is not adequately covered by the word "simple". Neuroscience make no claim to have any kind of a sophisticated understanding of these other-wordly phenomenological experiences, so I'm not sure where you are getting information superior to that.
  - thewarrior 6y ago
    Well I would say it does actually a open a door to that dimension. It’s just that it’s latent in your brain and not necessarily an actual dimension. But this is also a deeper philosophical question around where things like numbers come from.
    - randmeerkat 6y ago
      > But this is also a deeper philosophical question around where things like numbers come from. Numbers come from people looking for a way to model the world and measure things...
      - thewarrior 6y ago
        That doesn’t answer the question of whether the numbers exist in a separate Platonic realm. This question is as old as philosophy.

jnathsf 6y ago

I'm not sure the author read Ram Dass' book or knows of his life as the author mentions Buddhism several times but clearly Ram Dass is a Hindu (his name means servant of Ram, a Hindu god, and his guru was Hindu).

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

exolymph 6y ago

All that which exists comprises a Whole, and you are a figment of that Whole. So am I, and we can speak to each other across our grand self. Isn't that neat?

odomojuli 6y ago

I tried looking up more information about this: https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/Mommy_and_I_are_one https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/Mommy_and_I_are_one "According to studies that determine the subconscious mind's ability to absorb subliminal messages, the subliminal phrase "Mommy and I are one" is considered the most effective subliminal message to aid in self motivation." How do you test if a subliminal message is effective? This part is interesting: In a game of darts, researchers found the the phrase "It's OK to beat dad" improved scores.

sn41 6y ago
Wow, this is the mother of all TILs. (Was that a Freudian slip, I wonder.)
JohnBooty 6y ago
“Mommy and I are one” is considered the most effective subliminal message to aid in self motivation. Suddenly, Evangelion makes sense now.
agumonkey 6y ago
I'd be curious about the opposite sex too. The notion of love (in the deepest) is surely one of the strongest source of mental energy there is for a human being.

fmakunbound 6y ago

Honestly, I can’t even make the morning stand-up without a 1g dose of shrooms, err in my coffee.

ve7da94 6y ago

Love it