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> And don't get me started on the completly stupid difference between ctrl+c and cmd+c. One (the standard for everything except macos) is used in terminal and t

> And don't get me started on the completly stupid difference between ctrl+c and cmd+c. One (the standard for everything except macos) is used in terminal and the other in every other app. This is completely backwards. In Linux, Copy/Paste is Ctrl+Shift+C/V in various terminal programs, but Ctrl+C/V in other GUI programs In MacOS/OSX/macOS since 1984, Copy/Paste has always been Cmd+C/V. ...because Copy/Paste are OS/GUI shell actions, and Control characters are not the same thing. Microsoft broke this separation in Windows 1.0, and Linux has stupidly aped Microsoft ever since. See also: Microsoft/Linux dialog boxes where the "Continue forward" option is located on the LHS (which in most locales notably including the original context, means "move backward").

kitsunesoba 6y ago
Copy/Paste in terminals is one of my greatest Linux peeves. It’s one of those things that just doesn’t stick… I can swap between Ctrl and Command all day but throwing Shift in there screws it all up. Eventually I just started right-clicking in Linux terminals for that particular functionality.
- rbreaves 6y ago
  Same, and as I mentioned above, writing this was my solution. https://github.com/rbreaves/kinto https://github.com/rbreaves/kinto or http://kinto.sh http://kinto.sh
gobengo 6y ago
great post! ty
indymike 6y ago
The difference was that Mac keyboards had an extra modifier (pcs had ctl alt and shift, Macs had opt ctl cmd shift) key and pcs generally did not until the windows95 era.
zepearl 6y ago
Question: does Ctrl+Insert (copy) and Shift+Insert (paste) work in MacOS? (reason: I mostly copy/paste that way in Linux&Windows, in both shells and apps - I don't have a Mac) Unluckily nowadays some notebooks don't have an insert-key, which makes me sad.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  Question: does Ctrl+Insert (copy) and Shift+Insert (paste) work in MacOS? No. Mostly because Apple keyboards don't have an Insert key. (They do have a "Clear" key, which I wish more developers would support. But I think so many are on the laptop or small keyboard they don't realize all the buttons that are available.)
- rbreaves 6y ago
  That's a convention per the app mostly and apps on macOS just don't need to use it.
kbouck 6y ago
I have linux (pop os) running directly on a macbook (basic dev work), and the different key combo for copy paste in terminal is one of my very few issues. debating with myself whether to remap keys (and then fumble on other linux terminals), or to just learn the new key habit.
- rbreaves 6y ago
  Checkout my project before going around and remapping all of your keys.. Kinto doesn't do anything like that. It will actually do all of the remappings you want via a single config file that you can easily add on to if you really need (I doubt it though) & you can disable it or uninstall it at any time. https://github.com/rbreaves/kinto https://github.com/rbreaves/kinto or http://kinto.sh http://kinto.sh
JohnTHaller 6y ago
Windows 1.0 was 1985, so a difference of a year is a bit silly. The majority of the world uses CTRL-C/V and has for decades, so that's the standard.
- quesera 6y ago
  The use of Ctrl+C as a control character, to mean "ETX/end of text" goes back to ASCII at least, so 1960. And as Cancel/Interrupt to the late 1960s at DEC and of course Bell/UNIX. Apple (really Xerox/PARC in this case) needed a key combination for "Copy" in their first GUI, and decided not to break the usability of that preexisting standard (and all of the other Control chars, some of which are still useful today). Microsoft Windows came along shortly afterward. They copied Apple/Xerox's choice of C/X/V for Copy/Cut/Paste in the GUI, but they broke the well-established standard meaning of Ctrl+C in the process. (IIRC, this is especially ironic because they were also breaking the meaning of Ctrl+C from MS-DOS.) And sure, Microsoft then went on to become dominant, and by virtue of their dominance created a huge number of people who believe that the misuse of Ctrl+C for Copy is "standard". But it still breaks functionality. Then and today, 35+ years later. "Copy" should be the same action in all applications. If it is not, the OS/GUI is failing the user.
  - wayneftw 6y ago
    As per usual though, Microsoft mostly will let you do what you want the way you want to do it by giving you an option, while Apple is busy breaking your things and trying to convince you that theirs is "the one true way". Here's the Microsoft option for letting you use Ctrl+C to copy in their terminal - https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/25590/how-to-enable-ctrlv-for-pasting-in-the-windows-command-prompt/ https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/25590/how-to-enable-ctrlv-fo... If you want the same on Linux, it's available.
    - quesera 6y ago
      But Ctrl+C to Copy is the broken part, so I do not want it! :) Ctrl+C is a signal to the running application inside the terminal, and should be passed without interference by the terminal emulator. > Apple is busy breaking your things and trying to convince you that theirs is "the one true way". If by that you mean "doing things the reasonable way and not needing to offer workarounds for their failures", then we are in complete agreement. :) I want OneModifierKeyButNotCtrl+C to Copy in all GUI applications including terminal emulators. I would settle for SomeModifierKeyCombinationNotCtrlAlone+C to Copy in all GUI applications including terminal emulators. I don't know if Microsoft offers that, but Linux does not. Copy/paste between a web browser and a terminal window is an exercise in frustration.

kitsunesoba 6y ago

Copy/Paste in terminals is one of my greatest Linux peeves. It’s one of those things that just doesn’t stick… I can swap between Ctrl and Command all day but throwing Shift in there screws it all up. Eventually I just started right-clicking in Linux terminals for that particular functionality.

rbreaves 6y ago
Same, and as I mentioned above, writing this was my solution. https://github.com/rbreaves/kinto https://github.com/rbreaves/kinto or http://kinto.sh http://kinto.sh

gobengo 6y ago

great post! ty

indymike 6y ago

The difference was that Mac keyboards had an extra modifier (pcs had ctl alt and shift, Macs had opt ctl cmd shift) key and pcs generally did not until the windows95 era.

zepearl 6y ago

Question: does Ctrl+Insert (copy) and Shift+Insert (paste) work in MacOS? (reason: I mostly copy/paste that way in Linux&Windows, in both shells and apps - I don't have a Mac) Unluckily nowadays some notebooks don't have an insert-key, which makes me sad.

reaperducer 6y ago
Question: does Ctrl+Insert (copy) and Shift+Insert (paste) work in MacOS? No. Mostly because Apple keyboards don't have an Insert key. (They do have a "Clear" key, which I wish more developers would support. But I think so many are on the laptop or small keyboard they don't realize all the buttons that are available.)
rbreaves 6y ago
That's a convention per the app mostly and apps on macOS just don't need to use it.

kbouck 6y ago

I have linux (pop os) running directly on a macbook (basic dev work), and the different key combo for copy paste in terminal is one of my very few issues. debating with myself whether to remap keys (and then fumble on other linux terminals), or to just learn the new key habit.

rbreaves 6y ago
Checkout my project before going around and remapping all of your keys.. Kinto doesn't do anything like that. It will actually do all of the remappings you want via a single config file that you can easily add on to if you really need (I doubt it though) & you can disable it or uninstall it at any time. https://github.com/rbreaves/kinto https://github.com/rbreaves/kinto or http://kinto.sh http://kinto.sh

JohnTHaller 6y ago

Windows 1.0 was 1985, so a difference of a year is a bit silly. The majority of the world uses CTRL-C/V and has for decades, so that's the standard.

quesera 6y ago
The use of Ctrl+C as a control character, to mean "ETX/end of text" goes back to ASCII at least, so 1960. And as Cancel/Interrupt to the late 1960s at DEC and of course Bell/UNIX. Apple (really Xerox/PARC in this case) needed a key combination for "Copy" in their first GUI, and decided not to break the usability of that preexisting standard (and all of the other Control chars, some of which are still useful today). Microsoft Windows came along shortly afterward. They copied Apple/Xerox's choice of C/X/V for Copy/Cut/Paste in the GUI, but they broke the well-established standard meaning of Ctrl+C in the process. (IIRC, this is especially ironic because they were also breaking the meaning of Ctrl+C from MS-DOS.) And sure, Microsoft then went on to become dominant, and by virtue of their dominance created a huge number of people who believe that the misuse of Ctrl+C for Copy is "standard". But it still breaks functionality. Then and today, 35+ years later. "Copy" should be the same action in all applications. If it is not, the OS/GUI is failing the user.
- wayneftw 6y ago
  As per usual though, Microsoft mostly will let you do what you want the way you want to do it by giving you an option, while Apple is busy breaking your things and trying to convince you that theirs is "the one true way". Here's the Microsoft option for letting you use Ctrl+C to copy in their terminal - https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/25590/how-to-enable-ctrlv-for-pasting-in-the-windows-command-prompt/ https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/25590/how-to-enable-ctrlv-fo... If you want the same on Linux, it's available.
  - quesera 6y ago
    But Ctrl+C to Copy is the broken part, so I do not want it! :) Ctrl+C is a signal to the running application inside the terminal, and should be passed without interference by the terminal emulator. > Apple is busy breaking your things and trying to convince you that theirs is "the one true way". If by that you mean "doing things the reasonable way and not needing to offer workarounds for their failures", then we are in complete agreement. :) I want OneModifierKeyButNotCtrl+C to Copy in all GUI applications including terminal emulators. I would settle for SomeModifierKeyCombinationNotCtrlAlone+C to Copy in all GUI applications including terminal emulators. I don't know if Microsoft offers that, but Linux does not. Copy/paste between a web browser and a terminal window is an exercise in frustration.