3 ms·

> A private organisation run by non-doctors and non-nurses allowed to administer vaccines? WTF? Agreed, in part, but if you only knew what a clusterfuck the un

> A private organisation run by non-doctors and non-nurses allowed to administer vaccines? WTF? Agreed, in part, but if you only knew what a clusterfuck the underlying system is even with incredibly expensive employer based medical insurance was you'd probably be more open to seeing things like this take palce. And before you start with 'but in my country...' just know I've lived in countries with socialized medicine, where having to wait months for appointments to see a specialist is the norm, years for a surgery is nearly guaranteed and even needing a Dr's RX for aspirin (Germany!) is needed which is equally absurd to me as I got injured and ended up just drinking vodka to endure the pain instead of just having something available that is OTC in most countries. None of these systems are what I would call 'good,' and are all in need of massive reform. And while this does have a lot of sensationalism behind it that makes it look bad, I say just look at my earlier post and just focus at the results and what comparable rollout efforts look like before condemning them entirely. The US is an experiment, and one that has been failing most people at large for several decades now because of entrenched bureaucratic power deterring or outright denying these kind of accelerated forms of disruption to their monopolies and business models. I now see COVID as an opportunity as much as I see it as catastrophic shock to the system now.

2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
And before you start with 'but in my country...' just know I've lived in countries with socialized medicine, where having to wait months for appointments to see a specialist is the norm, years for a surgery is nearly guaranteed and even needing a Dr's RX for aspirin (Germany!) is needed which is equally absurd to me Poor overgeneralisation. I’m in Sydney. We have a hybrid system. - Insurance is generally affordable (I pay $1200AUD, just over $900USD, a YEAR). - GP visits are free. There are a few privates that might cost $50++ per consult. But a decent GP that works in the public system can be found. - Specialist visits are subsidised without needing insurance and are similar cost to a GP consult in the US depending on who you see. Wait times can be long, but your GP will know several specialists whom they trust and can give several referrals. I’ve never waited more than 4 weeks. - Mental health consults are free with a referral. You get Max 12 free a year. - Specialist procedures can take many months in the public system. True. But they are available for free. And a free system that saves some lives and gives everyone a shot is better than a private only system that just serves the rich. - Insurance is affordable so you can enter the private system. Some procedures just cost the excess. This is very quick. - All billable items must be disclosed upfront. There are no surprises. - Medication is cheaper. No system is perfect, but ours are vastly more affordable and effective per dollar than the US system. To argue about waiting for specialist procedures when a GP consultation could cost $100USD without insurance (source: last American I spoke to who visited a doctor in the US) is simply ludicrous. Last year I maxed my mental health allowance, had GP appointments at least once a month and did a range of tests. Total cost: $0. Specialists and hospital: $800-900AUD. Meds: $200AUD. It was a bad year for me. Still way less than a year of US insurance.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > No system is perfect, but ours are vastly more affordable and effective per dollar than the US system. To argue about waiting for specialist procedures when a GP consultation could cost $100USD without insurance (source: last American I spoke to who visited a doctor in the US) is simply ludicrous. Last year I maxed my mental health allowance, had GP appointments at least once a month and did a range of tests. Total cost: $0. Specialists and hospital: $800-900AUD. Meds: $200AUD. It was a bad year for me. Still way less than a year of US insurance. Agreed, and the Australian system does have a stronger platform to model others off of by the sound of you analysis, but as you said: it too needs reform, and that is extremely needed in the US. As for your ~$100 estimate, that's really funny try $700 and be on a waiting list(the orthopedic specialist I saw was the head guy for CU Boulder's football team on campus and the Sports Medicine Complex) for months before imaging, most of it was billed to my insurance and I paid $140 on top of a ~$96/week premium for my insurance through my employer and then another $75 for a 'discounted' session of Physical Therapy the same day, and my insurance only covered half the cost of my x-ray images because they deemed more than one an 'elective procedure' even though they were referrals from the ortho to make his concluding assessment on the weakness of my injured side. Which he deemed non-determinable. They billed me for each and everyone of those images separately but their broken system made it impossible for me to pay for my half of the images, apparently this has its own billing department on campus and seems like it was a 3rd party service, so after several attempts to register via their broken website I gave up and it went into collections as no one ever answered the phone in the billing department at the Medical center on Campus over the Summer when I went. I ended up just going to a well renown spine specialist in the new year for more images and nerve electrode impulse tests, all for another $250 that ended up with me seeing yet another Ortho specialist (I hope you see where I'm going here with all of this) who recommended me for an MRI due to observable muscular atrophy as a result of possible neural deterioration caused by trauma that I never got in the end as it would be $700 after jumping all the hoops and the insurance finally getting enough paperwork and wasting my time to make it available. I think you can see why this system bankrupts more people in the US than anything else, so I'm glad a startup is not just talking about about it's grandiose visions and actually took this head on tried to distribute vaccinations during a pandemic. Was it messy, sure, but that's to be expected. They'l learn from this I'm sure. I really wish them well because if they succeed it could set a much needed precedence for other startups that want to disrupt the medical industrial complex in the US. This is way better than 95% of the BS startups coming out of Silicon Valley with inflated valuations and several rounds of VC funding, and I'm afraid to say includes a lot of YCs alumni. As for you situation in OZ, all I can say is: got any room for one more? ;)

2muchcoffeeman 6y ago

And before you start with 'but in my country...' just know I've lived in countries with socialized medicine, where having to wait months for appointments to see a specialist is the norm, years for a surgery is nearly guaranteed and even needing a Dr's RX for aspirin (Germany!) is needed which is equally absurd to me Poor overgeneralisation. I’m in Sydney. We have a hybrid system. - Insurance is generally affordable (I pay $1200AUD, just over $900USD, a YEAR). - GP visits are free. There are a few privates that might cost $50++ per consult. But a decent GP that works in the public system can be found. - Specialist visits are subsidised without needing insurance and are similar cost to a GP consult in the US depending on who you see. Wait times can be long, but your GP will know several specialists whom they trust and can give several referrals. I’ve never waited more than 4 weeks. - Mental health consults are free with a referral. You get Max 12 free a year. - Specialist procedures can take many months in the public system. True. But they are available for free. And a free system that saves some lives and gives everyone a shot is better than a private only system that just serves the rich. - Insurance is affordable so you can enter the private system. Some procedures just cost the excess. This is very quick. - All billable items must be disclosed upfront. There are no surprises. - Medication is cheaper. No system is perfect, but ours are vastly more affordable and effective per dollar than the US system. To argue about waiting for specialist procedures when a GP consultation could cost $100USD without insurance (source: last American I spoke to who visited a doctor in the US) is simply ludicrous. Last year I maxed my mental health allowance, had GP appointments at least once a month and did a range of tests. Total cost: $0. Specialists and hospital: $800-900AUD. Meds: $200AUD. It was a bad year for me. Still way less than a year of US insurance.

Melting_Harps 6y ago
> No system is perfect, but ours are vastly more affordable and effective per dollar than the US system. To argue about waiting for specialist procedures when a GP consultation could cost $100USD without insurance (source: last American I spoke to who visited a doctor in the US) is simply ludicrous. Last year I maxed my mental health allowance, had GP appointments at least once a month and did a range of tests. Total cost: $0. Specialists and hospital: $800-900AUD. Meds: $200AUD. It was a bad year for me. Still way less than a year of US insurance. Agreed, and the Australian system does have a stronger platform to model others off of by the sound of you analysis, but as you said: it too needs reform, and that is extremely needed in the US. As for your ~$100 estimate, that's really funny try $700 and be on a waiting list(the orthopedic specialist I saw was the head guy for CU Boulder's football team on campus and the Sports Medicine Complex) for months before imaging, most of it was billed to my insurance and I paid $140 on top of a ~$96/week premium for my insurance through my employer and then another $75 for a 'discounted' session of Physical Therapy the same day, and my insurance only covered half the cost of my x-ray images because they deemed more than one an 'elective procedure' even though they were referrals from the ortho to make his concluding assessment on the weakness of my injured side. Which he deemed non-determinable. They billed me for each and everyone of those images separately but their broken system made it impossible for me to pay for my half of the images, apparently this has its own billing department on campus and seems like it was a 3rd party service, so after several attempts to register via their broken website I gave up and it went into collections as no one ever answered the phone in the billing department at the Medical center on Campus over the Summer when I went. I ended up just going to a well renown spine specialist in the new year for more images and nerve electrode impulse tests, all for another $250 that ended up with me seeing yet another Ortho specialist (I hope you see where I'm going here with all of this) who recommended me for an MRI due to observable muscular atrophy as a result of possible neural deterioration caused by trauma that I never got in the end as it would be $700 after jumping all the hoops and the insurance finally getting enough paperwork and wasting my time to make it available. I think you can see why this system bankrupts more people in the US than anything else, so I'm glad a startup is not just talking about about it's grandiose visions and actually took this head on tried to distribute vaccinations during a pandemic. Was it messy, sure, but that's to be expected. They'l learn from this I'm sure. I really wish them well because if they succeed it could set a much needed precedence for other startups that want to disrupt the medical industrial complex in the US. This is way better than 95% of the BS startups coming out of Silicon Valley with inflated valuations and several rounds of VC funding, and I'm afraid to say includes a lot of YCs alumni. As for you situation in OZ, all I can say is: got any room for one more? ;)