7 ms·

Rolex's Manufacturing Facilities (2015)

48 points by stevekemp 6y ago

game_the0ry 6y ago
Cool article, but they're still overpriced.
- TwoBit 6y ago
  Given that mechanical watches are not bought for their ability to report time, how do you even say what it's worth? It's really a work of technical art.
  - Fezzik 6y ago
    Given that the technical artistry is the same as it is in numerous other fine watches, it should be relatively easy to calculate how many extra dollars a person is paying to have ‘Rolex’ stamped on the timepiece... and methinks it is a rather hefty markup.
    - underlines 6y ago
      It's not the same. If you become a watchmaker in Switzerland, you'll have to do a 4 years apprenticeship/vocational education and to become a master takes years. Those people are well paid, because the GDP per capita in Switzerland is quite high and the salaries of people in this industry is high. Yes, a Seiko gives you the same, but a Swiss Certina also gives you the same for a much lower price. There are over 100 swiss watch brands and you don't have to pick a luxury brand to get a decent mechanical/automatic watch. You won't get all the hand-made stuff or heritage for that price though.
    - thih9 6y ago
      > technical artistry is the same as it is in numerous other fine watches How do you compare technical artistry? E.g. the article describes testing water resistance in a strict way; is it possible to say whether it’s brand markup, or technical artistry?
      - lmz 6y ago
        Anything marked as a diver's watch (which you can find for as cheap as $300) is subject to similar tests for water pressure[1]. Rolex evidently does so for non dive watches as well. [1]: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/tale-of-two-isos-what-water-resistance-ratings-really-mean https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/tale-of-two-isos-what-wate...
  - Dave_Rosenthal 6y ago
    Well, I guess that the fact that China can produce high-end Rolex knockoffs that are all but indistinguishable from the real thing for 5-10% the price gives you one datapoint about what it’s worth. Of course that’s with no design or marketing costs, cheaper labor, and a lot less quality control.
    - cosmodisk 6y ago
      The problem with Rolex,in a same way as with Louis Vuitton, is that most products you see in public are fake. I just couldn't force myself to commit a few grand to buy a watch that does look like a Chinese knock-off,even when it's not. The sentiment isn't there for other watch brands.
      - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
        Burberry, one of the UK fashion brands suffered from this. The fakes almost became a uniform for young people from working class backgrounds. Needless to say that wasn't the image Burberry wanted to create.
  - nullifidian 6y ago
    More akin to TF2 Hats or CS:GO knives -- expensive, limited supply, status symbol with practicality approaching zero. Also look nice, but so are cheap Seikos, or cheap CS:GO skins.
    - Veen 6y ago
      > with practicality approaching zero They tell the time and sometimes the date. I find that quite useful.
      - nullifidian 6y ago
        Quartz watches are much better at telling time. Some of them can tell time using GPS with atomic precision. Quartz watches don't require regular servicing, and are accurate to ±5 seconds per year for the better models. If telling time is what you want, you won't buy a mechanical watch, the same way you won't buy a wood-burning stove for cooking. Smart watches like Apple watch can also do many other things. Buying a mechanical watch is utterly irrational, if you subtract the status, scarcity, and design components.
        Veen 6y ago
        > Buying a mechanical watch is utterly irrational, if you subtract the status, scarcity, and design components. Yes, buying something is irrational if you "subtract" all the reasons people buy it, but I don't think your conception of those reasons is accurate. I like my mechanical watch for many reasons that have nothing to do with status and scarcity. It looks good and I appreciate the quality of workmanship. I find the mechanism's complexity and delicacy beautiful. I like that it has a glass back and I can watch it work. I like that it is entirely powered by my own body's motion, and I never have to charge it or change its batteries. I find its ability to keep time through purely mechanical rather than digital processes fascinating, and a useful balance to a life that would otherwise be dominated by ones and zeroes. I find the history of the watchmaker and watchmaking interesting, and like that I wear an item that is part of a centuries-long story. I like that, if maintained well, my watch will work when I am 80 years old and I can give it to my son—something that cannot be said of an Apple Watch. I like that it doesn't have notifications and doesn't track me: it only provides useful information to me and not to the company that made it. It is less accurate than a quartz watch, but I neither need nor want atomic precision from a watch. You conflate "rational" with "utilitarian" or "practical" but they aren't the same thing at all. Even if people bought mechanical watches solely for the status and looks, that would not be "utterly irrational" because those are values of importance to them.
  - dmitriid 6y ago
    Rolex produces 800 000 to a million watches a year. It's not a piece of art. It's a mass-production assembly line for high quality luxury products.
- speedgoose 6y ago
  Being overpriced and out of reach for many people is one of the main point of a Rolex.
  - lmz 6y ago
    It's amusing to see this downvoted when it definitely is true. Multiple years[1] of waiting for a basic steel model? [1]: https://www.watchmaster.com/en/journal/news-en/rolex-waiting-list-watches-with-the-longest-waiting-times https://www.watchmaster.com/en/journal/news-en/rolex-waiting...
  - ramraj07 6y ago
    It used to be the everyman's watch though.
  - lozf 6y ago
    As the saying goes; "You don't buy a Rolex to tell the time, you buy a Rolex to tell others".
JohnBooty 6y ago
We are shuffled into a secure room – we are about to see the legendary Rolex automated stock system. Our guide places his eyes to the iris scanner (no lie) the doors slide open, and what we see is downright startling. [...] There are two 12,000 cubic meter vaults, spliced by a network of rails totaling 1.5 kilometers, transporting over 2,800 trays of components per hour between the 60,000 storage compartments and the workshops upstairs. The view is straight out of Star Wars, minus the 1970s camp. This is efficiency defined. Not your everyday company. Even if you're not particularly into watches, Rolex is a really neat example of a suuuuuper vertically integrated company. They even make their own steel! Necessary? Probably not; I'm not aware that they actually accomplish some sort of magic metallurgy. But, that's no ordinary company. In terms of things the average person can afford... if this kind of thing actually appeals to you but you can't imagine spending Rolex money... Seiko comes close and arguably exceeds even Rolex in terms of history, innovation, and vertical integration. It's one reason why Seiko is a favorite of many in the hobby. Why does this matter? Well, for many, it's simply neat to know that every single piece of the tiny little miracle machine on your wrist came from a single slightly secretive company. Timekeeping in general, and mechanical watches in particular, are a fascinating and vital part of human history. (And as wristwatches are something of a solved problem, they're appealing to me on that level after fighting with the framework of the week at my day job.)
- underlines 6y ago
  If you really want one, then Rolex are not that expensive. Get a certified second hand Rolex. But there are so many affordable Swiss watch brands. My father bought me a Certina for 200USD 15 years ago. My girlfriend bought me an automatic Tissot. The cheapest automatic Tissot is around 700USD new and you can get second hand options for 100 USD.
  - Immortal333 6y ago
    >>> The cheapest automatic Tissot is around 700USD. Is the engineering/logistics behind Mechanical watches really costlier than Oneplus phones ?
trabant00 6y ago
Slightly offtopic warning from an addict: do not start looking into watches. Especially mechanical ones. Their beauty combined with their flaws puts people on the never ending, wallet destroying quest for the holy grail. And the diminishing returns from jumping from a "budget" watch of 3-500$ to a "nice" one of 2-3000$ are ridiculously small. Collecting mechanical watches is especially bad in these last couple of years because the prices have gone up by a lot with little to none technical advances to back it up. It looks to me like a ponzi scheme supported by the watch media (hodinkee in particular [0]) as they try to push watches as a sort of investment - which they are not it you actually wear them. The manufacturers put out one overpriced limited edition after another where the only thing that changes is the color scheme. There's a lot to talk about and I'm sure I didn't do a good job of presenting my case in such a short post, but at least keep this warning in the back of your head. [0] https://thetruthaboutwatches.com/2020/12/ben-clymer-hodinkee-valued-at-100m/ https://thetruthaboutwatches.com/2020/12/ben-clymer-hodinkee...
- k_sze 6y ago
  What I do is I make a list of vintage grail watches that I'm interested in, and I limit myself to those and stop looking at other ones. (Same thing with fountain pens.) Right now these are missing from my collection: - Seiko SCVF-009 "Red Alpinist" with green dial - I already have the cream dial (SCVF-007) and the black dial (SCVF-005) counterparts. - Citizen 67-9356 Octagon chronograph, in both white dial and black dial configurations; I find this one interesting because it was like the only inexpensive hi-beat (28,800 bph) chronograph, complete with day-date and flyback mechanism, ever produced in the history of Japanese watch-making. - Grand Seiko 6186-8000 VFA, in both blue-dial-and-long-hands, and white-dial-and-short-hands configurations. A ridiculously accurate Grand Seiko with a dial design that (I find) really stands the tests of time. Legend has it that the Seikos performed so well that the Swiss eventually gave up inviting them to the chronometer competition (because Seikos kept coming out at the top). I consider this model the pinnacle before Seiko resorted to "cheating" with the SpringDrive. Curiously, I'm not really interested in Swiss watches.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >Curiously, I'm not really interested in Swiss watches. I think having a list of "vintage grail watches" you just "need to have" is more curious than that :)
techbio 6y ago
I once bought a genuine Rollex watch, for $10, and a co-worker said I'd been had. May be, maybe not.
- techbio 6y ago
  It literally had the extra 'l' on the face. I got my money's worth.
newdude116 6y ago
Piece of advertisement. I like mechanical watches and you can get an excellent automatic watch with Swiss parts for 500 USD. Possibly 300 USD from China if you don't mind China made. A Rolex for USD 7500 is manufactured for around USD 1000 https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/4wlla1/rolex_how_much_does_it_actually_cost_rolex_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/4wlla1/rolex_how_m... The rest? Profit and Marketing, Marketing, Marketing. The Thread opener is part of the marketing.
dang 6y ago
If curious see also 2017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13459616 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13459616

48 points by stevekemp 6y ago

game_the0ry 6y ago

Cool article, but they're still overpriced.

TwoBit 6y ago
Given that mechanical watches are not bought for their ability to report time, how do you even say what it's worth? It's really a work of technical art.
- Fezzik 6y ago
  Given that the technical artistry is the same as it is in numerous other fine watches, it should be relatively easy to calculate how many extra dollars a person is paying to have ‘Rolex’ stamped on the timepiece... and methinks it is a rather hefty markup.
  - underlines 6y ago
    It's not the same. If you become a watchmaker in Switzerland, you'll have to do a 4 years apprenticeship/vocational education and to become a master takes years. Those people are well paid, because the GDP per capita in Switzerland is quite high and the salaries of people in this industry is high. Yes, a Seiko gives you the same, but a Swiss Certina also gives you the same for a much lower price. There are over 100 swiss watch brands and you don't have to pick a luxury brand to get a decent mechanical/automatic watch. You won't get all the hand-made stuff or heritage for that price though.
  - thih9 6y ago
    > technical artistry is the same as it is in numerous other fine watches How do you compare technical artistry? E.g. the article describes testing water resistance in a strict way; is it possible to say whether it’s brand markup, or technical artistry?
    - lmz 6y ago
      Anything marked as a diver's watch (which you can find for as cheap as $300) is subject to similar tests for water pressure[1]. Rolex evidently does so for non dive watches as well. [1]: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/tale-of-two-isos-what-water-resistance-ratings-really-mean https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/tale-of-two-isos-what-wate...
- Dave_Rosenthal 6y ago
  Well, I guess that the fact that China can produce high-end Rolex knockoffs that are all but indistinguishable from the real thing for 5-10% the price gives you one datapoint about what it’s worth. Of course that’s with no design or marketing costs, cheaper labor, and a lot less quality control.
  - cosmodisk 6y ago
    The problem with Rolex,in a same way as with Louis Vuitton, is that most products you see in public are fake. I just couldn't force myself to commit a few grand to buy a watch that does look like a Chinese knock-off,even when it's not. The sentiment isn't there for other watch brands.
    - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
      Burberry, one of the UK fashion brands suffered from this. The fakes almost became a uniform for young people from working class backgrounds. Needless to say that wasn't the image Burberry wanted to create.
- nullifidian 6y ago
  More akin to TF2 Hats or CS:GO knives -- expensive, limited supply, status symbol with practicality approaching zero. Also look nice, but so are cheap Seikos, or cheap CS:GO skins.
  - Veen 6y ago
    > with practicality approaching zero They tell the time and sometimes the date. I find that quite useful.
    - nullifidian 6y ago
      Quartz watches are much better at telling time. Some of them can tell time using GPS with atomic precision. Quartz watches don't require regular servicing, and are accurate to ±5 seconds per year for the better models. If telling time is what you want, you won't buy a mechanical watch, the same way you won't buy a wood-burning stove for cooking. Smart watches like Apple watch can also do many other things. Buying a mechanical watch is utterly irrational, if you subtract the status, scarcity, and design components.
      - Veen 6y ago
        > Buying a mechanical watch is utterly irrational, if you subtract the status, scarcity, and design components. Yes, buying something is irrational if you "subtract" all the reasons people buy it, but I don't think your conception of those reasons is accurate. I like my mechanical watch for many reasons that have nothing to do with status and scarcity. It looks good and I appreciate the quality of workmanship. I find the mechanism's complexity and delicacy beautiful. I like that it has a glass back and I can watch it work. I like that it is entirely powered by my own body's motion, and I never have to charge it or change its batteries. I find its ability to keep time through purely mechanical rather than digital processes fascinating, and a useful balance to a life that would otherwise be dominated by ones and zeroes. I find the history of the watchmaker and watchmaking interesting, and like that I wear an item that is part of a centuries-long story. I like that, if maintained well, my watch will work when I am 80 years old and I can give it to my son—something that cannot be said of an Apple Watch. I like that it doesn't have notifications and doesn't track me: it only provides useful information to me and not to the company that made it. It is less accurate than a quartz watch, but I neither need nor want atomic precision from a watch. You conflate "rational" with "utilitarian" or "practical" but they aren't the same thing at all. Even if people bought mechanical watches solely for the status and looks, that would not be "utterly irrational" because those are values of importance to them.
- dmitriid 6y ago
  Rolex produces 800 000 to a million watches a year. It's not a piece of art. It's a mass-production assembly line for high quality luxury products.
speedgoose 6y ago
Being overpriced and out of reach for many people is one of the main point of a Rolex.
- lmz 6y ago
  It's amusing to see this downvoted when it definitely is true. Multiple years[1] of waiting for a basic steel model? [1]: https://www.watchmaster.com/en/journal/news-en/rolex-waiting-list-watches-with-the-longest-waiting-times https://www.watchmaster.com/en/journal/news-en/rolex-waiting...
- ramraj07 6y ago
  It used to be the everyman's watch though.
- lozf 6y ago
  As the saying goes; "You don't buy a Rolex to tell the time, you buy a Rolex to tell others".

JohnBooty 6y ago

We are shuffled into a secure room – we are about to see the legendary Rolex automated stock system. Our guide places his eyes to the iris scanner (no lie) the doors slide open, and what we see is downright startling. [...] There are two 12,000 cubic meter vaults, spliced by a network of rails totaling 1.5 kilometers, transporting over 2,800 trays of components per hour between the 60,000 storage compartments and the workshops upstairs. The view is straight out of Star Wars, minus the 1970s camp. This is efficiency defined. Not your everyday company. Even if you're not particularly into watches, Rolex is a really neat example of a suuuuuper vertically integrated company. They even make their own steel! Necessary? Probably not; I'm not aware that they actually accomplish some sort of magic metallurgy. But, that's no ordinary company. In terms of things the average person can afford... if this kind of thing actually appeals to you but you can't imagine spending Rolex money... Seiko comes close and arguably exceeds even Rolex in terms of history, innovation, and vertical integration. It's one reason why Seiko is a favorite of many in the hobby. Why does this matter? Well, for many, it's simply neat to know that every single piece of the tiny little miracle machine on your wrist came from a single slightly secretive company. Timekeeping in general, and mechanical watches in particular, are a fascinating and vital part of human history. (And as wristwatches are something of a solved problem, they're appealing to me on that level after fighting with the framework of the week at my day job.)

underlines 6y ago
If you really want one, then Rolex are not that expensive. Get a certified second hand Rolex. But there are so many affordable Swiss watch brands. My father bought me a Certina for 200USD 15 years ago. My girlfriend bought me an automatic Tissot. The cheapest automatic Tissot is around 700USD new and you can get second hand options for 100 USD.
- Immortal333 6y ago
  >>> The cheapest automatic Tissot is around 700USD. Is the engineering/logistics behind Mechanical watches really costlier than Oneplus phones ?

trabant00 6y ago

Slightly offtopic warning from an addict: do not start looking into watches. Especially mechanical ones. Their beauty combined with their flaws puts people on the never ending, wallet destroying quest for the holy grail. And the diminishing returns from jumping from a "budget" watch of 3-500$ to a "nice" one of 2-3000$ are ridiculously small. Collecting mechanical watches is especially bad in these last couple of years because the prices have gone up by a lot with little to none technical advances to back it up. It looks to me like a ponzi scheme supported by the watch media (hodinkee in particular [0]) as they try to push watches as a sort of investment - which they are not it you actually wear them. The manufacturers put out one overpriced limited edition after another where the only thing that changes is the color scheme. There's a lot to talk about and I'm sure I didn't do a good job of presenting my case in such a short post, but at least keep this warning in the back of your head. [0] https://thetruthaboutwatches.com/2020/12/ben-clymer-hodinkee-valued-at-100m/ https://thetruthaboutwatches.com/2020/12/ben-clymer-hodinkee...

k_sze 6y ago
What I do is I make a list of vintage grail watches that I'm interested in, and I limit myself to those and stop looking at other ones. (Same thing with fountain pens.) Right now these are missing from my collection: - Seiko SCVF-009 "Red Alpinist" with green dial - I already have the cream dial (SCVF-007) and the black dial (SCVF-005) counterparts. - Citizen 67-9356 Octagon chronograph, in both white dial and black dial configurations; I find this one interesting because it was like the only inexpensive hi-beat (28,800 bph) chronograph, complete with day-date and flyback mechanism, ever produced in the history of Japanese watch-making. - Grand Seiko 6186-8000 VFA, in both blue-dial-and-long-hands, and white-dial-and-short-hands configurations. A ridiculously accurate Grand Seiko with a dial design that (I find) really stands the tests of time. Legend has it that the Seikos performed so well that the Swiss eventually gave up inviting them to the chronometer competition (because Seikos kept coming out at the top). I consider this model the pinnacle before Seiko resorted to "cheating" with the SpringDrive. Curiously, I'm not really interested in Swiss watches.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >Curiously, I'm not really interested in Swiss watches. I think having a list of "vintage grail watches" you just "need to have" is more curious than that :)

techbio 6y ago

I once bought a genuine Rollex watch, for $10, and a co-worker said I'd been had. May be, maybe not.

techbio 6y ago
It literally had the extra 'l' on the face. I got my money's worth.

newdude116 6y ago

Piece of advertisement. I like mechanical watches and you can get an excellent automatic watch with Swiss parts for 500 USD. Possibly 300 USD from China if you don't mind China made. A Rolex for USD 7500 is manufactured for around USD 1000 https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/4wlla1/rolex_how_much_does_it_actually_cost_rolex_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/4wlla1/rolex_how_m... The rest? Profit and Marketing, Marketing, Marketing. The Thread opener is part of the marketing.

dang 6y ago

If curious see also 2017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13459616 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13459616