3 ms·

The EU is 3x worse than the US, 4-5x worse than the UK and about 20x worse than Israel. It's one of the few - maybe the only - developed "countries" that has bo

by ucha 6y ago

The EU is 3x worse than the US, 4-5x worse than the UK and about 20x worse than Israel. It's one of the few - maybe the only - developed "countries" that has both a record number of cases and low vaccination rates. How is that not bad? A lot of pro-EU people refuse to blame to commission because they see it, justly, as a vindication of the Brits who warned of the EU bureaucracy when they left. But IMO, being pro-EU starts by naming the problems in the commission so that they can be fixed.

HugoDaniel 6y ago
Please provide data. How did you make the comparison? Does it consider that these countries moved up the priority stack through shady tactics and started vaccination earlier than the EU? Are you analysing the numbers per capita? total? average in 7 days? Please be constructive.
- danielfoster 6y ago
  The data is easily available by searching Google. The EU has been slow to order doses from viable partners and always seems to be the last to approve new vaccines. Some EU countries are only now giving their first vaccines. What shady tactics did other countries use? To be fair it’s not reasonable to demand someone show data and then allude to “shady tactics” without providing evidence, though I don’t doubt that shady tactics were probably used all around.
  - HugoDaniel 6y ago
    Does not answer the question or expand on what time interval the data is collected. However, since you played the Google card, please take it back: "What shady tactics did other countries use?" Also easily available by searching Google.
    - MichaelRazum 6y ago
      Id doesn't matter at all. Facts are: Other countries placed their bets faster and started vaccination faster. First come first serve, don't see anything wrong with it. Maybe the EU should also use shady tactics but it sounds more like a huge corruption and bureaucracy disaster. By the way Biotech offered more vaccines and it was refused (even the CEO of Biotech gave an interview and said it was very confusing how the EU negotiated).
      - HugoDaniel 6y ago
        "Huge corruption and bureaucracy disaster" Please provide facts before making unsubstantiated claims. This is how fake news proliferate. Don't contribute to it.
        MichaelRazum 6y ago
        Sure. Corruption Ursula von der Leyen. Just the wrong person. I would say it sounds very much like corruption to me. https://www.politico.eu/article/the-scandal-hanging-over-ursula-von-der-leyen/ https://www.politico.eu/article/the-scandal-hanging-over-urs... Seems that France tried to help it's own company Sanofi. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/macron-accused-of-holding-out-for-french-jab-59r2zpvhf https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/macron-accused-of-holding... Bureaucracy Eu approved weeks later then others. If every day counts that is in my point of view a bureaucracy disaster. https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-vaccine-ema-idUSKBN28P14H https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-vaccine-e... Here also a claim from Pfilzer about ordering policy as too bureaucratically and slow. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/01/france-to-step-up-covid-jabs-after-claims-of-bowing-to-anti-vaxxers https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/01/france-to-step...
        HugoDaniel 6y ago
        Those corruption cases must be verified and dealt with by the law. The EU latency is a well known cost of the coordinating effort of multiple countries with different politics and perspectives. EU is not a country. Make no mistake, without the EU the peripheral countries like mine would still be waiting for a vaccine. Make no mistake, without the EU countries like France and Germany would be having similar, if not better, vaccination numbers than the UK/USA are having now.
- ucha 6y ago
  I'm using the only statistic that matters, the percentage of the population being vaccinated. https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations If the goal of vaccination is to stop the propagation of the virus, all the other possible metrics you cited are irrelevant. Which shady tactics? Not being 3 months late to place an order?
  - HugoDaniel 6y ago
    "the only statistic that matters" this is the kind of certainty that hides misconceptions and forces biased perspectives.

by ucha 6y ago

HugoDaniel 6y ago

Please provide data. How did you make the comparison? Does it consider that these countries moved up the priority stack through shady tactics and started vaccination earlier than the EU? Are you analysing the numbers per capita? total? average in 7 days? Please be constructive.

danielfoster 6y ago
The data is easily available by searching Google. The EU has been slow to order doses from viable partners and always seems to be the last to approve new vaccines. Some EU countries are only now giving their first vaccines. What shady tactics did other countries use? To be fair it’s not reasonable to demand someone show data and then allude to “shady tactics” without providing evidence, though I don’t doubt that shady tactics were probably used all around.
- HugoDaniel 6y ago
  Does not answer the question or expand on what time interval the data is collected. However, since you played the Google card, please take it back: "What shady tactics did other countries use?" Also easily available by searching Google.
  - MichaelRazum 6y ago
    Id doesn't matter at all. Facts are: Other countries placed their bets faster and started vaccination faster. First come first serve, don't see anything wrong with it. Maybe the EU should also use shady tactics but it sounds more like a huge corruption and bureaucracy disaster. By the way Biotech offered more vaccines and it was refused (even the CEO of Biotech gave an interview and said it was very confusing how the EU negotiated).
    - HugoDaniel 6y ago
      "Huge corruption and bureaucracy disaster" Please provide facts before making unsubstantiated claims. This is how fake news proliferate. Don't contribute to it.
      - MichaelRazum 6y ago
        Sure. Corruption Ursula von der Leyen. Just the wrong person. I would say it sounds very much like corruption to me. https://www.politico.eu/article/the-scandal-hanging-over-ursula-von-der-leyen/ https://www.politico.eu/article/the-scandal-hanging-over-urs... Seems that France tried to help it's own company Sanofi. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/macron-accused-of-holding-out-for-french-jab-59r2zpvhf https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/macron-accused-of-holding... Bureaucracy Eu approved weeks later then others. If every day counts that is in my point of view a bureaucracy disaster. https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-vaccine-ema-idUSKBN28P14H https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-vaccine-e... Here also a claim from Pfilzer about ordering policy as too bureaucratically and slow. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/01/france-to-step-up-covid-jabs-after-claims-of-bowing-to-anti-vaxxers https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/01/france-to-step...
        HugoDaniel 6y ago
        Those corruption cases must be verified and dealt with by the law. The EU latency is a well known cost of the coordinating effort of multiple countries with different politics and perspectives. EU is not a country. Make no mistake, without the EU the peripheral countries like mine would still be waiting for a vaccine. Make no mistake, without the EU countries like France and Germany would be having similar, if not better, vaccination numbers than the UK/USA are having now.
ucha 6y ago
I'm using the only statistic that matters, the percentage of the population being vaccinated. https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations If the goal of vaccination is to stop the propagation of the virus, all the other possible metrics you cited are irrelevant. Which shady tactics? Not being 3 months late to place an order?
- HugoDaniel 6y ago
  "the only statistic that matters" this is the kind of certainty that hides misconceptions and forces biased perspectives.