6 ms·

I'm optimistic that PinePhone may finally be the one to do it, at least to an extent that it's usable if you're willing to hack on it.

oji0hub 6y ago
> usable if you're willing to hack on it Most people need things just work.
- Shared404 6y ago
  I concur. But if we have a platform that is actually suitable for the community to work on, we can get to that point. Much like Ubuntu made desktop Linux a viable prospect for many people, after being enabled by Debian, I could see a future libre smartphone being enabled by the work done on PinePhone.
  - oji0hub 6y ago
    Well maybe, but even Ubuntu / Debian aren't workable for most people. I've used Linux and FreeBSD since the 90s and I'm still pleasantly surprised when my printer works out of the box. They're great for developers, but they've been unable to provide a usable and simple alternative for most people. Imo, partly because a lack of incentives since developers tend to create for themselves. Partly due to fragmentation leading to projects moving in every direction at the same time, which does not lead to a consistent or simple user experience.
    - neop1x 6y ago
      When I am purchasing HW peripherals, I always check Linux support in advance. Since I started doing that, I had zero compatibility problems.
    - julienfr112 6y ago
      Actually Ubuntu is not less usable than Windows 10. Ex on intel NUC - wifi on Ubuntu : out of box - wifi on windows : plug ethernet, install driver manually. Old printers works better on Linux, eg when driver do not work on windows 10. Libre Office outof box, Office : where is my key ? ...
      - hutzlibu 6y ago
        "Actually Ubuntu is not less usable than Windows 10." For you and me maybe. But don't expect other people to have your standard of software choices etc.
        Ericson2314 6y ago
        The problem is Ubuntu, but that consumers have migrated from desktops/laptops to Phones. (Bad for Linux, and bad for society as it's much easier to be a non-passitive participant on a desktop/laptop.)
        seniorivn 6y ago
        for most people app selection on ubuntu is big enough to never need anything more only professional/rare software sometimes has no support/suitable alternative
      - oji0hub 6y ago
        - Can I install my "favourite program" on Linux? Well sure, it's supported on X, Y and Z! - Oh but I'm on distro A. Oh sorry, that's not supported. But here's a post by some guy on some forum who says he made it work by doing a bunch of complicated things no one understands.
        Macha 6y ago
        We're talking about Ubuntu. Distro X is always Ubuntu. Y and Z are usually picked from Debian, Red Hat, Fedora and Arch
        m4rtink 6y ago
        This is often no longer an issue thanks to Flatpak & Steam Proton built-in Windows emulation.
        Shared404 6y ago
        In addition, there's a significant subset of people who's only program they use is a web browser. This is obviously quite doable with basically any distro.
- awwaiid 6y ago
  An important lesson from my openmoko days - "sorry I didn't get your call sweetie, see I needed a new video driver for my window manager animations so I recompiled my kernel and that broke the modem..." ....... turns out to not be a good excuse for missing significant-others calls on a regular basis!
- Ericson2314 6y ago
  The problem with Desktop Linux was by the time it got better, regular people spent too much time on phones and not enough time on laptops/desktops. But I can't really imagine phones going away that fast---what, we all get some Uber regulated neural thing? I think the tech companies are too unpopular for that---and so I think PinePhone can catch up. Plus, the Duopoly is way more annoying for regular users than Windows ever was.
swebs 6y ago
It probably won't. I love my Pinephone just like I love desktop Linux, and both are great choices for people who keep up with tech, but neither will reach more than a few percentage points of marketshare without a $100m+ marketing push. They would need the help of some tech philanthropist to make it to the mainstream.

oji0hub 6y ago

> usable if you're willing to hack on it Most people need things just work.

Shared404 6y ago
I concur. But if we have a platform that is actually suitable for the community to work on, we can get to that point. Much like Ubuntu made desktop Linux a viable prospect for many people, after being enabled by Debian, I could see a future libre smartphone being enabled by the work done on PinePhone.
- oji0hub 6y ago
  Well maybe, but even Ubuntu / Debian aren't workable for most people. I've used Linux and FreeBSD since the 90s and I'm still pleasantly surprised when my printer works out of the box. They're great for developers, but they've been unable to provide a usable and simple alternative for most people. Imo, partly because a lack of incentives since developers tend to create for themselves. Partly due to fragmentation leading to projects moving in every direction at the same time, which does not lead to a consistent or simple user experience.
  - neop1x 6y ago
    When I am purchasing HW peripherals, I always check Linux support in advance. Since I started doing that, I had zero compatibility problems.
  - julienfr112 6y ago
    Actually Ubuntu is not less usable than Windows 10. Ex on intel NUC - wifi on Ubuntu : out of box - wifi on windows : plug ethernet, install driver manually. Old printers works better on Linux, eg when driver do not work on windows 10. Libre Office outof box, Office : where is my key ? ...
    - hutzlibu 6y ago
      "Actually Ubuntu is not less usable than Windows 10." For you and me maybe. But don't expect other people to have your standard of software choices etc.
      - Ericson2314 6y ago
        The problem is Ubuntu, but that consumers have migrated from desktops/laptops to Phones. (Bad for Linux, and bad for society as it's much easier to be a non-passitive participant on a desktop/laptop.)
      - seniorivn 6y ago
        for most people app selection on ubuntu is big enough to never need anything more only professional/rare software sometimes has no support/suitable alternative
    - oji0hub 6y ago
      - Can I install my "favourite program" on Linux? Well sure, it's supported on X, Y and Z! - Oh but I'm on distro A. Oh sorry, that's not supported. But here's a post by some guy on some forum who says he made it work by doing a bunch of complicated things no one understands.
      - Macha 6y ago
        We're talking about Ubuntu. Distro X is always Ubuntu. Y and Z are usually picked from Debian, Red Hat, Fedora and Arch
      - m4rtink 6y ago
        This is often no longer an issue thanks to Flatpak & Steam Proton built-in Windows emulation.
        Shared404 6y ago
        In addition, there's a significant subset of people who's only program they use is a web browser. This is obviously quite doable with basically any distro.
awwaiid 6y ago
An important lesson from my openmoko days - "sorry I didn't get your call sweetie, see I needed a new video driver for my window manager animations so I recompiled my kernel and that broke the modem..." ....... turns out to not be a good excuse for missing significant-others calls on a regular basis!
Ericson2314 6y ago
The problem with Desktop Linux was by the time it got better, regular people spent too much time on phones and not enough time on laptops/desktops. But I can't really imagine phones going away that fast---what, we all get some Uber regulated neural thing? I think the tech companies are too unpopular for that---and so I think PinePhone can catch up. Plus, the Duopoly is way more annoying for regular users than Windows ever was.

swebs 6y ago

It probably won't. I love my Pinephone just like I love desktop Linux, and both are great choices for people who keep up with tech, but neither will reach more than a few percentage points of marketshare without a $100m+ marketing push. They would need the help of some tech philanthropist to make it to the mainstream.