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This is basically the last straw for me. The past week has made it perfectly clear that Big Tech will close the circle and protect their own. Anything that appe

This is basically the last straw for me. The past week has made it perfectly clear that Big Tech will close the circle and protect their own. Anything that appears to be censorship resistant, that allows the little guy to get ahead and compete, or that allows individuals to have greater levels of privacy and freedom, will be shut down and de-platformed. As was predicted in 1948, "hate speech" has just become a smoke and mirrors term. Facebook and Discord used this excuse to deplatform WSB. Twitter uses this to deplatform people left, right, and center. And now Google is using it deplatform one of the few decentralised projects I had a lot of faith in.

eternalban 6y ago
Wait until CBDCs roll out. Right now, it is your speech and communication. Tomorrow, it will be accessing your money. Then they will have their desired perfectly obedient population.
- est31 6y ago
  I've thought CBDCs ensure the opposite? Currently if you have an uninsured account at a bank, and the bank goes bankrupt, your money is gone. With CBDCs it seems to me that the money is truly yours instead of in a currency pegged to the fiat but that can always break.
  - eternalban 6y ago
    I live in US and we have had FDIC as long as I remember. I'm not even sure there is such a thing as "uninsured account" in US, or if there are, why would anyone use such a bank. https://www.fdic.gov/ https://www.fdic.gov/ It's a simple equation to grok: if utility X is only available in a digitized form on a controlled and centralized platform, then that utility is subject to central controls. And as we see, these control mechanisms will inevitably require AI moderation to scale. You think things are bad when Google arbitrarily kicks you off gmail? Wait until it happens to your bank account. Who are you gonna call? Where are you going to go and speak out about it?
    - est31 6y ago
      I guess it all depends on how it's implemented and what the censorship policy is. If it's implemented with a "everyone, including the homeless, felons and racists gets access" mindset then there isn't much concern. If it's implemented with a "having access is a privilege not a right" mindset, it's different. USPS has to service everyone, even those where they don't make any money with. If this FDIC thing is more like the USPS, your concerns would be unfounded.
      - throwawayfrauds 6y ago
        USPS only services people who have a residence or pay a fee to have a box. Homeless people require a special approval to receive mail. So USPS does not have to service everyone, but at least they can’t ban people based on mail content.
  - dmantis 6y ago
    No, with distributed cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin money is yours. With CDBCs your wallet is managed by your government and not you.
Shared404 6y ago
> I had a lot of faith in. I wouldn't give up faith in Matrix yet. Remember, there are other clients, and there is always the Element web client.
- indymike 6y ago
  I suspect that Google will eventually get Matrix clients right. It's really no different than an email client or web browser. Element is *not* a content community it's a communication client app. As a customer, I do not want Google regulating my communication software clients for content. That is my job as a user.
ike77 6y ago
> will close the circle Precisely. Even if they are acting in good faith, their current set of rules would make them ban internet if it was to be created now.
SirensOfTitan 6y ago
From Alex Carey in 1995: "The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”
monopoledance 6y ago
> This is basically the last straw for me. Now you're just out of straws, or pulled the trigger on some decision? What's the implication?
- nip180 6y ago
  I imagine if you wanted to 100% stop buying or using products from FANNG (+Microsoft & Twitter) it would be impossible without doing anything short of living completely off the grid. Imagine, you ditch your smartphone. You switch to Linux. You stop using _search engines_ because all of them use Google or Bing in the backend. You abandon Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, GitHub, and Gmail. Before you go to a website, how do you know if they are going to load an asset from AWS or GApps? Maybe the server loads an asset from AWS and redistributes it to you, so you can’t just blacklist IPs. How do you know if your Bank’s ATMs are using AWS? Or your hospital’s digital records? Eventually someone you do business with will do business with FANG and you’ll be indirectly supporting them.
  - monopoledance 6y ago
    I don't believe in "vote with your wallet" kinda dogmas. I mean watch the news right now.. We need regulation and government investment in open tech and software. The App/Play Store are anti-competitive, but Apple and Google have a Duopoly in the mobile market. There can and should be rules regarding this. I don't see how they should be even allowed to profit off these markets. Like at all. Every app there increases the value of their platforms by itself. Even if you use F-Droid, you then have to compromise on security deeply embedded into the Android OS. Platforms should be allowed to be repairable, open and documented and users should be allowed to do whatever they please with them. The market won't fix this. You need to become politically active.
    - nip180 6y ago
      I’m not typically one to “vote with my wallet”, and I think it’s very impractical to do so with all of big tech. I do however tend to buy products and services that align with my values and shy away from products and services that go against my values. For example, I’d be more inclined to buy a Tesla and install home solar panels then I would be to buy a VW because Tesla is emissions free and VW lied on their emissions tests. VW lost some long term customers because of that incident and Tesla is continuing to attract new buyers that are concerned with climate change. Due to this trend we are able to deploy more electric vehicles then government regulations require.
at_a_remove 6y ago
As always, the Four Horsemen were acted upon first. Only this time around it is "actual Nazis" (not actual Nazis, no matter how much "literally shaking" was done). And who could defend that? (The ACLU, and the left, should have, we all should have) And complaining about it is obviously the slippery slope fallacy (or the camel's nose in the tent) so it can be ignored until it is just too late. And now there's a whole series of well-honed defenses ("it's a private company!" "go make your own!" "freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences") ready to back up these bold moves, along with the handily-set precedent. Whatever shackles are being forged against your worst enemy, do not be surprised if they end up on your wrists at some later date.
fsflover 6y ago
>This is basically the last straw for me. So are you going to switch to a GNU/Linux phone, Librem 5 or Pinephone?
- Thorentis 6y ago
  Nokia dumbphone!
  - fsflover 6y ago
    What’s its advantage over a Linux phone with kill switches?
    - Thorentis 6y ago
      Depends what your goal is. I also wanted to detox from too much smartphone use, so half the reason was to help with this. A Linux phone, while great in other areas, wouldn't have helped with that. Maybe I'll try out some kind of Linux phone when I venture back into smartphone territory.

eternalban 6y ago

Wait until CBDCs roll out. Right now, it is your speech and communication. Tomorrow, it will be accessing your money. Then they will have their desired perfectly obedient population.

est31 6y ago
I've thought CBDCs ensure the opposite? Currently if you have an uninsured account at a bank, and the bank goes bankrupt, your money is gone. With CBDCs it seems to me that the money is truly yours instead of in a currency pegged to the fiat but that can always break.
- eternalban 6y ago
  I live in US and we have had FDIC as long as I remember. I'm not even sure there is such a thing as "uninsured account" in US, or if there are, why would anyone use such a bank. https://www.fdic.gov/ https://www.fdic.gov/ It's a simple equation to grok: if utility X is only available in a digitized form on a controlled and centralized platform, then that utility is subject to central controls. And as we see, these control mechanisms will inevitably require AI moderation to scale. You think things are bad when Google arbitrarily kicks you off gmail? Wait until it happens to your bank account. Who are you gonna call? Where are you going to go and speak out about it?
  - est31 6y ago
    I guess it all depends on how it's implemented and what the censorship policy is. If it's implemented with a "everyone, including the homeless, felons and racists gets access" mindset then there isn't much concern. If it's implemented with a "having access is a privilege not a right" mindset, it's different. USPS has to service everyone, even those where they don't make any money with. If this FDIC thing is more like the USPS, your concerns would be unfounded.
    - throwawayfrauds 6y ago
      USPS only services people who have a residence or pay a fee to have a box. Homeless people require a special approval to receive mail. So USPS does not have to service everyone, but at least they can’t ban people based on mail content.
- dmantis 6y ago
  No, with distributed cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin money is yours. With CDBCs your wallet is managed by your government and not you.

Shared404 6y ago

> I had a lot of faith in. I wouldn't give up faith in Matrix yet. Remember, there are other clients, and there is always the Element web client.

indymike 6y ago
I suspect that Google will eventually get Matrix clients right. It's really no different than an email client or web browser. Element is *not* a content community it's a communication client app. As a customer, I do not want Google regulating my communication software clients for content. That is my job as a user.

ike77 6y ago

> will close the circle Precisely. Even if they are acting in good faith, their current set of rules would make them ban internet if it was to be created now.

SirensOfTitan 6y ago

From Alex Carey in 1995: "The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”

monopoledance 6y ago

> This is basically the last straw for me. Now you're just out of straws, or pulled the trigger on some decision? What's the implication?

nip180 6y ago
I imagine if you wanted to 100% stop buying or using products from FANNG (+Microsoft & Twitter) it would be impossible without doing anything short of living completely off the grid. Imagine, you ditch your smartphone. You switch to Linux. You stop using _search engines_ because all of them use Google or Bing in the backend. You abandon Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, GitHub, and Gmail. Before you go to a website, how do you know if they are going to load an asset from AWS or GApps? Maybe the server loads an asset from AWS and redistributes it to you, so you can’t just blacklist IPs. How do you know if your Bank’s ATMs are using AWS? Or your hospital’s digital records? Eventually someone you do business with will do business with FANG and you’ll be indirectly supporting them.
- monopoledance 6y ago
  I don't believe in "vote with your wallet" kinda dogmas. I mean watch the news right now.. We need regulation and government investment in open tech and software. The App/Play Store are anti-competitive, but Apple and Google have a Duopoly in the mobile market. There can and should be rules regarding this. I don't see how they should be even allowed to profit off these markets. Like at all. Every app there increases the value of their platforms by itself. Even if you use F-Droid, you then have to compromise on security deeply embedded into the Android OS. Platforms should be allowed to be repairable, open and documented and users should be allowed to do whatever they please with them. The market won't fix this. You need to become politically active.
  - nip180 6y ago
    I’m not typically one to “vote with my wallet”, and I think it’s very impractical to do so with all of big tech. I do however tend to buy products and services that align with my values and shy away from products and services that go against my values. For example, I’d be more inclined to buy a Tesla and install home solar panels then I would be to buy a VW because Tesla is emissions free and VW lied on their emissions tests. VW lost some long term customers because of that incident and Tesla is continuing to attract new buyers that are concerned with climate change. Due to this trend we are able to deploy more electric vehicles then government regulations require.

at_a_remove 6y ago

As always, the Four Horsemen were acted upon first. Only this time around it is "actual Nazis" (not actual Nazis, no matter how much "literally shaking" was done). And who could defend that? (The ACLU, and the left, should have, we all should have) And complaining about it is obviously the slippery slope fallacy (or the camel's nose in the tent) so it can be ignored until it is just too late. And now there's a whole series of well-honed defenses ("it's a private company!" "go make your own!" "freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences") ready to back up these bold moves, along with the handily-set precedent. Whatever shackles are being forged against your worst enemy, do not be surprised if they end up on your wrists at some later date.

fsflover 6y ago

>This is basically the last straw for me. So are you going to switch to a GNU/Linux phone, Librem 5 or Pinephone?

Thorentis 6y ago
Nokia dumbphone!
- fsflover 6y ago
  What’s its advantage over a Linux phone with kill switches?
  - Thorentis 6y ago
    Depends what your goal is. I also wanted to detox from too much smartphone use, so half the reason was to help with this. A Linux phone, while great in other areas, wouldn't have helped with that. Maybe I'll try out some kind of Linux phone when I venture back into smartphone territory.