7 ms·

I hope more apps start allowing to directly download an .apk file from their website. I don't have Google Play Services or the Play store installed on my phone

I hope more apps start allowing to directly download an .apk file from their website. I don't have Google Play Services or the Play store installed on my phone nor do I want to install them. Yes, it's my responsibility to update the app, whatever, just give me the file.

cft 6y ago
Then how do you get instant messaging notifications?
- young_unixer 6y ago
  I think I don't. Sometimes I get notifications, sometimes it may take hours for me to get the notification. I rarely use instant messaging for important things, and when I do, I make sure to check my phone often so I don't miss the messages. Is this stupid? Maybe, but I'm not going to install Google's closed source crap on a device that I carry almost everywhere. If that means I become a social pariah, then so be it.
  - cft 6y ago
    I think they should be forced to allow apps running in the background to connect to an arbitrary server, to subscribe to notifications
    - dathinab 6y ago
      Its kinda is possible (on some android setups) but unreliable. Most importantly your app (and server) needs to be build to be able to fall back to a 3rd party message broker. But the common fallback is to just sync messages from time to time in background if the app runs as it's "good enough" for the case Google is temporary down or not available or you are one of the (from the App POV) view people which de-googled their phone.
  - hutzlibu 6y ago
    "If that means I become a social pariah, then so be it." Sounds heroic, but maybe does not help anyone? And if you really cannot tolerate closed source, than what kind of hardware do you use? As far as I know, they are allmost all closed and locked. Pine64 is a fresh breeze, but they are also not free(nor stable) yet. My workaround is simply, that I have a mobile, where I can remove the batterie, then I know, it is turned off.
- hiq 6y ago
  Both Signal and WhatsApp work fine. It requires workarounds from the app developers, but it's not impossible to implement.
  - emayljames 6y ago
    Signal gets round it by sending an empty notification through Google's mandatory firebase service, then sending the actual message from its own service.
- dathinab 6y ago
  Through non-google message brokers. The problem is that this requires a long running background connection. And guess what Google tried to kill for battery saving purpose since a long time (long running mostly sleeping background processes). But then on Google in difference to Apple it's still possible (but less reliable) with the right setup and fully possible with a "proper" de-googled phone. So depending on your setup you might either: - not get notifications - get them unreliable - only get them if the app is open - get them just fine Also this might change from app to app, there clearly will be apps which will not have any 3rd party notification broker fallback, but given how Google doesn't have 100% delivicery guarantees they still should have (potential delayed) message syncing when the app is open.
onethought 6y ago
Is there a standard that could verify an apk against a certificate? ... or an I just describing building an alternative play store?
- young_unixer 6y ago
  Signal, for instance, does this: https://signal.org/android/apk/ https://signal.org/android/apk/
  - sp1rit 6y ago
    Signal doesn't. They give you a hash not a signature. I.e. if you have control iver their site, you can push a malicious signal application and change the hash.
    - Sephr 6y ago
      This is false. The Signal APK is signed with the same signature as the APK on Google Play. If the signature was different then Android would not allow me to overwrite/update my Google Play Signal installation with the APK that I just downloaded from that site. On Android, APKs are almost always signed by default (even if they're only self-signed).
- AWildC182 6y ago
  This is a (mostly) solved problem in linux. Your package manager has a central repo, but also can have 3rd party repos added. You'd add the matrix repo and it would automatically update it with everything else. It means everything still gets updated and verified against the keyring.
  - colordrops 6y ago
    Fdroid supports 3rd party repos.
- JJJollyjim 6y ago
  Android's has an app signing system which isn't dependent on Google Play. Updates to a given app have to be signed with the same certificate as previous versions.
LockAndLol 6y ago
Or they make F-Droid more known. Publishing apks yourself means you have to implement an update feature. F-Droid takes care of that
- vbezhenar 6y ago
  How is F-Droid conceptually different from PlayStore? They can ban anything just as well.
  - throwaway525142 6y ago
    You can add your own repositories.
  - LockAndLol 6y ago
    What @throwaway525142 said and you can host your own repo.
    - vbezhenar 6y ago
      Considering their political stance I would not be surprised if they would blocklist some repositories. https://f-droid.org/en/2019/07/16/statement.html https://f-droid.org/en/2019/07/16/statement.html
      - LockAndLol 6y ago
        Everything is open-source. They block what they want and you can fork it or recompile it. You don't have that same liberty with Google, the Apple Store, Amazon, Samsung, etc. On the store that you host you can also choose to enforce whichever rules you like. Plus, they were talking about Gab there. If you think you're going to write the next Gab or... Pander or Flander or whatever that website was that allowed people to plan storming the US capital, then you can still have your own store.
hutzlibu 6y ago
Whats wrong with F-Droid?
- duckmysick 6y ago
  It allows only free and open source apps, which might be a no-go for some.
  - sundarurfriend 6y ago
    They allow adding alternate repositories, but the ones I've come across have all also only allowed FOSS apps. I wonder if it's a policy any repo has to follow or if it's possible for someone to create a non-FOSS repo too.
    - hutzlibu 6y ago
      Even when you can use a non-free repo, that still leaves the question of payment. Because most who distribute nonfree apps, want money first. I doubt this is compatible with F-Droids architecture.
    - darkwater 6y ago
      I might be wrong but I don't think most non FOSS apps authors would be fine with an unwanted third party publishing their software on their repo.

cft 6y ago

Then how do you get instant messaging notifications?

young_unixer 6y ago
I think I don't. Sometimes I get notifications, sometimes it may take hours for me to get the notification. I rarely use instant messaging for important things, and when I do, I make sure to check my phone often so I don't miss the messages. Is this stupid? Maybe, but I'm not going to install Google's closed source crap on a device that I carry almost everywhere. If that means I become a social pariah, then so be it.
- cft 6y ago
  I think they should be forced to allow apps running in the background to connect to an arbitrary server, to subscribe to notifications
  - dathinab 6y ago
    Its kinda is possible (on some android setups) but unreliable. Most importantly your app (and server) needs to be build to be able to fall back to a 3rd party message broker. But the common fallback is to just sync messages from time to time in background if the app runs as it's "good enough" for the case Google is temporary down or not available or you are one of the (from the App POV) view people which de-googled their phone.
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  "If that means I become a social pariah, then so be it." Sounds heroic, but maybe does not help anyone? And if you really cannot tolerate closed source, than what kind of hardware do you use? As far as I know, they are allmost all closed and locked. Pine64 is a fresh breeze, but they are also not free(nor stable) yet. My workaround is simply, that I have a mobile, where I can remove the batterie, then I know, it is turned off.
hiq 6y ago
Both Signal and WhatsApp work fine. It requires workarounds from the app developers, but it's not impossible to implement.
- emayljames 6y ago
  Signal gets round it by sending an empty notification through Google's mandatory firebase service, then sending the actual message from its own service.
dathinab 6y ago
Through non-google message brokers. The problem is that this requires a long running background connection. And guess what Google tried to kill for battery saving purpose since a long time (long running mostly sleeping background processes). But then on Google in difference to Apple it's still possible (but less reliable) with the right setup and fully possible with a "proper" de-googled phone. So depending on your setup you might either: - not get notifications - get them unreliable - only get them if the app is open - get them just fine Also this might change from app to app, there clearly will be apps which will not have any 3rd party notification broker fallback, but given how Google doesn't have 100% delivicery guarantees they still should have (potential delayed) message syncing when the app is open.

onethought 6y ago

Is there a standard that could verify an apk against a certificate? ... or an I just describing building an alternative play store?

young_unixer 6y ago
Signal, for instance, does this: https://signal.org/android/apk/ https://signal.org/android/apk/
- sp1rit 6y ago
  Signal doesn't. They give you a hash not a signature. I.e. if you have control iver their site, you can push a malicious signal application and change the hash.
  - Sephr 6y ago
    This is false. The Signal APK is signed with the same signature as the APK on Google Play. If the signature was different then Android would not allow me to overwrite/update my Google Play Signal installation with the APK that I just downloaded from that site. On Android, APKs are almost always signed by default (even if they're only self-signed).
AWildC182 6y ago
This is a (mostly) solved problem in linux. Your package manager has a central repo, but also can have 3rd party repos added. You'd add the matrix repo and it would automatically update it with everything else. It means everything still gets updated and verified against the keyring.
- colordrops 6y ago
  Fdroid supports 3rd party repos.
JJJollyjim 6y ago
Android's has an app signing system which isn't dependent on Google Play. Updates to a given app have to be signed with the same certificate as previous versions.

LockAndLol 6y ago

Or they make F-Droid more known. Publishing apks yourself means you have to implement an update feature. F-Droid takes care of that

vbezhenar 6y ago
How is F-Droid conceptually different from PlayStore? They can ban anything just as well.
- throwaway525142 6y ago
  You can add your own repositories.
- LockAndLol 6y ago
  What @throwaway525142 said and you can host your own repo.
  - vbezhenar 6y ago
    Considering their political stance I would not be surprised if they would blocklist some repositories. https://f-droid.org/en/2019/07/16/statement.html https://f-droid.org/en/2019/07/16/statement.html
    - LockAndLol 6y ago
      Everything is open-source. They block what they want and you can fork it or recompile it. You don't have that same liberty with Google, the Apple Store, Amazon, Samsung, etc. On the store that you host you can also choose to enforce whichever rules you like. Plus, they were talking about Gab there. If you think you're going to write the next Gab or... Pander or Flander or whatever that website was that allowed people to plan storming the US capital, then you can still have your own store.

hutzlibu 6y ago

Whats wrong with F-Droid?

duckmysick 6y ago
It allows only free and open source apps, which might be a no-go for some.
- sundarurfriend 6y ago
  They allow adding alternate repositories, but the ones I've come across have all also only allowed FOSS apps. I wonder if it's a policy any repo has to follow or if it's possible for someone to create a non-FOSS repo too.
  - hutzlibu 6y ago
    Even when you can use a non-free repo, that still leaves the question of payment. Because most who distribute nonfree apps, want money first. I doubt this is compatible with F-Droids architecture.
  - darkwater 6y ago
    I might be wrong but I don't think most non FOSS apps authors would be fine with an unwanted third party publishing their software on their repo.