4 ms·

> And as with every other OS, reliability has gone down over the years. I can run Debian or Ubuntu for weeks, even months, without rebooting. I can barely run

> And as with every other OS, reliability has gone down over the years. I can run Debian or Ubuntu for weeks, even months, without rebooting. I can barely run Windows for a day or two without rebooting. Others have mentioned the maddening and massive updates that happen frequently, and the weird application crashes and poor performance. Windows has some cool stuff, like Powershell and .Net, but it’s otherwise too painful to use unless I absolutely must (which happens more often than I’d like these days, despite going 5 years without using windows at one point). Plus, Powershell and .Net are more readily available on Linux.

ttt0 6y ago
> I can barely run Windows for a day or two without rebooting. Does Windows even allow to not reboot? I've heard that if you miss the update popup it will automatically do the update and reboot. And if you click "Remind me later" or whatever too many times it will just remove the button and force you to update. Did they fixed that or is it still doing that?
- com2kid 6y ago
  Consumer versions work this way for high priority updates. I guess no one remembers the days when the entire industry (re: Slashdot) yelled at Microsoft that they needed to stop letting users run around with ancient exploitable installs of Windows. So, Microsoft forces important updates. Fancier versions of Windows let you turn off most updates. Sev0 exploits, RCEs, and the like, well, those updates still get pushed down unless you have a corporate install with policies disabling all updates. There is a trade off, and for decades (!!) Microsoft let users decide, but eventually "1/4 of Windows users just got their machine 0wned" showed up in the press too many times. Kind of like how every time there is a widely installed Android malware app, Google gets blamed. "Why don't they enforce their policies!" Then soon as they do enforce their policies "The Android app store should just be a dumb distribution mechanism!" I get it, different people expressing those sentiments (I hope...), but balancing "keeping people from having their bank accounts cleared out" vs "user choice" is not the easiest of decisions. After many years, MS has gone full force on the auto-updating side of the debate.
  - ttt0 6y ago
    That's fine I guess, but the problem is that there is no option to disable it. I've even read recently that they removed from settings the option to delay the updates or something along these lines, because it was "too confusing for users". Can't they just do something like what hardware manufacturers did, which is "if you screw with our product on your own too much, you lose the warranty and we are not liable for any damages"?
    - com2kid 6y ago
      MS never was liable for damages. But back when Windows update had the option to disable updates, people who shouldn't (e.g. little Timmy setting up Gramp's machine) turned them off. Then Microsoft got dragged through the mud, and grampa lost his retirement savings. Back in the early 2000s, things were really bad. Going over to a non-geeks house, better than 50% chance to find malware, if they had broadband, good odds they were part of some sort of file drop for a warez group (or worse). The issue now days comes that MS also pushes down feature updates, that is something that very valid objections to exist, especially with the dropping level of QA that exists throughout the industry today.
dmqctx 6y ago
I'm unable to disagree with most of your points, but "I can barely run Windows for a day or two without rebooting." is hyperbole. If this is actually true, there is something seriously wrong with your install. Apart from that, Win10 pisses me off daily. It's insane that I harken back to the Win7 days as often as I do.
- monoideism 6y ago
  I've experienced this on many Windows machines. It's a combination of memory issues, little programs breaking here and there, forced updates, and stuff I frankly don't understand. Together, they very frequently necessitate a reboot after 2-3 days. > If this is actually true, there is something seriously wrong with your install This is the problem. It's very easy for stuff to go wrong with a Windows install. They deteriorate w/time. Why do you think so many times we end up just re-formatting a family member's machine? I've had to do that many times, even when malware wasn't an issue. I've never hard to reformat a Linux machine for such issues, even though I've been primarily on Linux for well over a decade.
  - com2kid 6y ago
    > Together, they very frequently necessitate a reboot after 2-3 days. None of the 3 Windows machines in my house reboot other than for monthly updates. Actually, if you count my Xbox as "running Windows"， I do have to reboot that slightly more often than once a month! But seriously, now days a PC is a front end for a web browser, steam games, Adobe suite, and Office. My current Win10 install started off as a Windows 8 install many years back.
movedx 6y ago
> I can barely run Windows for a day or two without rebooting. Something is wrong here. I run Windows 10 for weeks at a time without rebooting. I'm typing this reply out on a Windows 10 workstation that has been up for ten days without a single issue.
- monoideism 6y ago
  OK, a day or two was probably an exaggeration, although it really does seem like that sometimes. Probably part of the problem is that I only use Windows every 1-2 months, and then when I do start it up, it spins the fan for an hour downloading and installing updates. That said, I really do end up with many, many more issues on Windows than on Linux. For example, I just yesterday had - out of the blue! - some Visual C++ Redistributable to suddenly go missing, and not able to open up Visual Studio Code (I'm mentoring some students who use Windows). I had used Visual Studio fine on that computer multiple times, and had never touched any of the system folders. No idea what happened to the missing library. I re-installed it and it was fine. I end up helping family members who come to me with mysterious Windows problems. Often the problem is just that the OS has slowed down over a year or two of normal use. I've tried registry cleaners, and they sometimes help a bit, but the only real success I've had in those situations is saving their personal folder and re-installing the OS. Sometimes there is evidence of malware on their computer, but often there is not. Never had things like that happen on Linux. Nor on OSX/MacOS. Windows just doesn't strike me as a reliable system. And that's not even bringing up the resource requirements for running Windows - I can easily run Linux on machines that could no longer run Windows without running into massive performance issues. This isn't some pathological Microsoft hatred: I'm favorably impressed with Visual Studio Code, with Powershell, with C#, with F#, with Typescript. I'm just not impressed with Windows as an operating system. It did get more reliable after the moved the the NT kernel, but still not half as reliable as MacOS or Linux. And, there's a downside to Linux, which is hardware compatibility (although that's rarely as bad as Linux critics describe it).
mads 6y ago
I have moved away from Linux. As much as I really want to use it, I always end up doing ... Linux ... as opposed to any real work. Just last week, I moved my laptop back to Windows from Ubuntu because it froze up on me at least a couple of times a day (and that is a XPS13 - a system which is supposedly built to run Linux). I have been using Linux since kernel version 0.99 or something, so its not like I dont know my way around it. I just dont really care which OS I run. It just needs to get out of the way and work for me and not against me. Windows does a good enough job at that.

ttt0 6y ago

> I can barely run Windows for a day or two without rebooting. Does Windows even allow to not reboot? I've heard that if you miss the update popup it will automatically do the update and reboot. And if you click "Remind me later" or whatever too many times it will just remove the button and force you to update. Did they fixed that or is it still doing that?

com2kid 6y ago
Consumer versions work this way for high priority updates. I guess no one remembers the days when the entire industry (re: Slashdot) yelled at Microsoft that they needed to stop letting users run around with ancient exploitable installs of Windows. So, Microsoft forces important updates. Fancier versions of Windows let you turn off most updates. Sev0 exploits, RCEs, and the like, well, those updates still get pushed down unless you have a corporate install with policies disabling all updates. There is a trade off, and for decades (!!) Microsoft let users decide, but eventually "1/4 of Windows users just got their machine 0wned" showed up in the press too many times. Kind of like how every time there is a widely installed Android malware app, Google gets blamed. "Why don't they enforce their policies!" Then soon as they do enforce their policies "The Android app store should just be a dumb distribution mechanism!" I get it, different people expressing those sentiments (I hope...), but balancing "keeping people from having their bank accounts cleared out" vs "user choice" is not the easiest of decisions. After many years, MS has gone full force on the auto-updating side of the debate.
- ttt0 6y ago
  That's fine I guess, but the problem is that there is no option to disable it. I've even read recently that they removed from settings the option to delay the updates or something along these lines, because it was "too confusing for users". Can't they just do something like what hardware manufacturers did, which is "if you screw with our product on your own too much, you lose the warranty and we are not liable for any damages"?
  - com2kid 6y ago
    MS never was liable for damages. But back when Windows update had the option to disable updates, people who shouldn't (e.g. little Timmy setting up Gramp's machine) turned them off. Then Microsoft got dragged through the mud, and grampa lost his retirement savings. Back in the early 2000s, things were really bad. Going over to a non-geeks house, better than 50% chance to find malware, if they had broadband, good odds they were part of some sort of file drop for a warez group (or worse). The issue now days comes that MS also pushes down feature updates, that is something that very valid objections to exist, especially with the dropping level of QA that exists throughout the industry today.

dmqctx 6y ago

I'm unable to disagree with most of your points, but "I can barely run Windows for a day or two without rebooting." is hyperbole. If this is actually true, there is something seriously wrong with your install. Apart from that, Win10 pisses me off daily. It's insane that I harken back to the Win7 days as often as I do.

monoideism 6y ago
I've experienced this on many Windows machines. It's a combination of memory issues, little programs breaking here and there, forced updates, and stuff I frankly don't understand. Together, they very frequently necessitate a reboot after 2-3 days. > If this is actually true, there is something seriously wrong with your install This is the problem. It's very easy for stuff to go wrong with a Windows install. They deteriorate w/time. Why do you think so many times we end up just re-formatting a family member's machine? I've had to do that many times, even when malware wasn't an issue. I've never hard to reformat a Linux machine for such issues, even though I've been primarily on Linux for well over a decade.
- com2kid 6y ago
  > Together, they very frequently necessitate a reboot after 2-3 days. None of the 3 Windows machines in my house reboot other than for monthly updates. Actually, if you count my Xbox as "running Windows"， I do have to reboot that slightly more often than once a month! But seriously, now days a PC is a front end for a web browser, steam games, Adobe suite, and Office. My current Win10 install started off as a Windows 8 install many years back.

movedx 6y ago

> I can barely run Windows for a day or two without rebooting. Something is wrong here. I run Windows 10 for weeks at a time without rebooting. I'm typing this reply out on a Windows 10 workstation that has been up for ten days without a single issue.

monoideism 6y ago
OK, a day or two was probably an exaggeration, although it really does seem like that sometimes. Probably part of the problem is that I only use Windows every 1-2 months, and then when I do start it up, it spins the fan for an hour downloading and installing updates. That said, I really do end up with many, many more issues on Windows than on Linux. For example, I just yesterday had - out of the blue! - some Visual C++ Redistributable to suddenly go missing, and not able to open up Visual Studio Code (I'm mentoring some students who use Windows). I had used Visual Studio fine on that computer multiple times, and had never touched any of the system folders. No idea what happened to the missing library. I re-installed it and it was fine. I end up helping family members who come to me with mysterious Windows problems. Often the problem is just that the OS has slowed down over a year or two of normal use. I've tried registry cleaners, and they sometimes help a bit, but the only real success I've had in those situations is saving their personal folder and re-installing the OS. Sometimes there is evidence of malware on their computer, but often there is not. Never had things like that happen on Linux. Nor on OSX/MacOS. Windows just doesn't strike me as a reliable system. And that's not even bringing up the resource requirements for running Windows - I can easily run Linux on machines that could no longer run Windows without running into massive performance issues. This isn't some pathological Microsoft hatred: I'm favorably impressed with Visual Studio Code, with Powershell, with C#, with F#, with Typescript. I'm just not impressed with Windows as an operating system. It did get more reliable after the moved the the NT kernel, but still not half as reliable as MacOS or Linux. And, there's a downside to Linux, which is hardware compatibility (although that's rarely as bad as Linux critics describe it).

mads 6y ago

I have moved away from Linux. As much as I really want to use it, I always end up doing ... Linux ... as opposed to any real work. Just last week, I moved my laptop back to Windows from Ubuntu because it froze up on me at least a couple of times a day (and that is a XPS13 - a system which is supposedly built to run Linux). I have been using Linux since kernel version 0.99 or something, so its not like I dont know my way around it. I just dont really care which OS I run. It just needs to get out of the way and work for me and not against me. Windows does a good enough job at that.