4 ms·

If the vaccines were developed publicly, there would be no reason not to collaborate.

by tehjoker 6y ago

emteycz 6y ago
If the vaccines were developed publicly there might not be any vaccines. This is not your ordinary flu shot.
- corty 6y ago
  About a quarter of the long list of vaccines was developed by public universities. Almost all were developed with billions in public subsidies.
  - barney54 6y ago
    mRNA vaccines are not your average vaccine.
  - emteycz 6y ago
    Where are the publicly developed ones used and how much does it cost per vaccinated person, and what is the effectiveness and safety? One would expect to see these in EU, but I see only these from US companies around here. I never said a thing against public funding. That is not the same thing as developed publicly. Thinking you can just go and develop a mRNA vaccine sounds like Dunning-Kruger to me. It took decades of research done by highly paid, highly specialized people highly driven towards a business goal and thus profit. I am not aware of any public entity doing that kind of research and actually successfully applying it too. (Yes, the development stands on the shoulders of public basic research. Not the same thing.)
  - fakedang 6y ago
    Public investment in the EU doesn't work like in the US. Expect to see a shit ton of money trickle down to Eurocrats and bureaucrats in their respective countries, before one ounce reach one country. Another issue is the fragmentation of the EU. If there is a pool of funds for a particular research target, the EU has to divvy it between its major countries. So even if a university in country X doesn't have much of a history researching something, they still get funded from the EU pool, as long as their country raises a tantrum over it. Meanwhile the US' (and most other countries') policy often looks at funding individual projects to one or a few unis at most. More targeted funding = better outputs. Not that EU doesn't have its successes. Galileo could be called a success, but the road to it was very very bumpy.
illuminati1911 6y ago
It is at least partly developed (or funded) publicly. Lots of comments are complaining about how EU "paid less" for the vaccine than country XYZ, but actually EU funded AstraZeneca with hundreds of millions of euros to develop the vaccine in the first place. In any case unless AZ, EU etc. are able to come to reasonable agreement I think this might eventually lead to EU simply breaking the patent and then anyone can make the vaccine. That would be extremely hardcore measure to use, but in current situation, definitely possible.
- jostmey 6y ago
  Hundreds of millions of dollars? Not even a billion dollars was set aside for vaccines as trillions of dollars are being lost?
  - simonh 6y ago
    That's just one vaccine, there are half a dozen that have resulted in usable products, and many, many more that didn't pan out.
  - foepys 6y ago
    That's what many people are getting mad about. Germany wanted to order from Biontech in July 2020 but the EU convinced them to let the EU order for a better "collective bargaining position". But this isn't the time to bargain. Just pay them a few billion Euros. Germany alone is estimated to be currently subsidizing its shut-down economy with around 4 billion Euros a week. Each week is more expensive than what the EU was willing to pay for advanced orders: 2.7 billion.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - estaseuropano 6y ago
      This was not the EU pushing, rather the smaller countries were scared that they'd be left out and thus put pressure on the German government to agree to do it jointly. That said, the main source for the story tha the negotiations were advanced is the German health minister who has skin in the game and reason to try and assign the blame elsewhere...
odiroot 6y ago
Then, knowing EU, we would be rolling out the first vaccines in 2022 or later.

If the vaccines were developed publicly, there would be no reason not to collaborate.

emteycz 6y ago

If the vaccines were developed publicly there might not be any vaccines. This is not your ordinary flu shot.

corty 6y ago
About a quarter of the long list of vaccines was developed by public universities. Almost all were developed with billions in public subsidies.
- barney54 6y ago
  mRNA vaccines are not your average vaccine.
- emteycz 6y ago
  Where are the publicly developed ones used and how much does it cost per vaccinated person, and what is the effectiveness and safety? One would expect to see these in EU, but I see only these from US companies around here. I never said a thing against public funding. That is not the same thing as developed publicly. Thinking you can just go and develop a mRNA vaccine sounds like Dunning-Kruger to me. It took decades of research done by highly paid, highly specialized people highly driven towards a business goal and thus profit. I am not aware of any public entity doing that kind of research and actually successfully applying it too. (Yes, the development stands on the shoulders of public basic research. Not the same thing.)
- fakedang 6y ago
  Public investment in the EU doesn't work like in the US. Expect to see a shit ton of money trickle down to Eurocrats and bureaucrats in their respective countries, before one ounce reach one country. Another issue is the fragmentation of the EU. If there is a pool of funds for a particular research target, the EU has to divvy it between its major countries. So even if a university in country X doesn't have much of a history researching something, they still get funded from the EU pool, as long as their country raises a tantrum over it. Meanwhile the US' (and most other countries') policy often looks at funding individual projects to one or a few unis at most. More targeted funding = better outputs. Not that EU doesn't have its successes. Galileo could be called a success, but the road to it was very very bumpy.

illuminati1911 6y ago

It is at least partly developed (or funded) publicly. Lots of comments are complaining about how EU "paid less" for the vaccine than country XYZ, but actually EU funded AstraZeneca with hundreds of millions of euros to develop the vaccine in the first place. In any case unless AZ, EU etc. are able to come to reasonable agreement I think this might eventually lead to EU simply breaking the patent and then anyone can make the vaccine. That would be extremely hardcore measure to use, but in current situation, definitely possible.

jostmey 6y ago
Hundreds of millions of dollars? Not even a billion dollars was set aside for vaccines as trillions of dollars are being lost?
- simonh 6y ago
  That's just one vaccine, there are half a dozen that have resulted in usable products, and many, many more that didn't pan out.
- foepys 6y ago
  That's what many people are getting mad about. Germany wanted to order from Biontech in July 2020 but the EU convinced them to let the EU order for a better "collective bargaining position". But this isn't the time to bargain. Just pay them a few billion Euros. Germany alone is estimated to be currently subsidizing its shut-down economy with around 4 billion Euros a week. Each week is more expensive than what the EU was willing to pay for advanced orders: 2.7 billion.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - estaseuropano 6y ago
    This was not the EU pushing, rather the smaller countries were scared that they'd be left out and thus put pressure on the German government to agree to do it jointly. That said, the main source for the story tha the negotiations were advanced is the German health minister who has skin in the game and reason to try and assign the blame elsewhere...

odiroot 6y ago

Then, knowing EU, we would be rolling out the first vaccines in 2022 or later.