4 ms·

More importantly for a vaccine that is sold at cost, the regional price that the IA got was $3 per dose, the commission stepped in trying to get it down to $2.

More importantly for a vaccine that is sold at cost, the regional price that the IA got was $3 per dose, the commission stepped in trying to get it down to $2. Israel is paying $30 for its doses of the Pfizer vaccine and likely a similar amount for Moderna. If the EU would’ve paid as much as Israel is for 500M doses it would only cost them 15 billion $. That is peanuts in the grand scheme of things, the UK spent 16 billion a month to cover furlough payments ffs...

Hunisgung 6y ago
> the regional price that the IA got was $3 per dose, the commission stepped in trying to get it down to $2. Meanwhile in France, I can do a RT-PCR test paid by the state (around 50$ AFAIK) every other day with no question asked.
- peteretep 6y ago
  My understanding is that the rich countries like France were willing to do a deal on day 1, but the commission stepped in to negotiate for everyone
  - flor1s 6y ago
    Having all countries in the EU in the same boat when it comes to vaccines seems like a good thing to me. Now we have this spat between the EU and UK, but if every nation in the EU negotiated by themselves we might have a conflict between EU countries themselves... That's not to say the EU didn't screw up along the way.
maxerickson 6y ago
The US spent quite a lot, but still came in very conservative. The initial orders (combined) of Pfizer/Moderna were enough for 75 million people. Vs likely demand of at least 200 million. For $40 billion (which we are estimated to lose every 4 or 5 days), we could have ordered 300 million of each of them. There's likely some materials that are scarce enough not to waste (we need billions of vaccines globally), but production also seems to have started very late in the trial/approval process.
- Throwawayaerlei 6y ago
  Sources? Because everything I've read is that each got a 100 million dose initial order, so that's 100 million people total to begin with. Moderna was already part of Operation Warp Speed, the contract signed 11 August 2020 according to Wikipedia. Pfizer refused to be a part of it, but in July 2020 signed a 100 million dose order contingent on getting regulatory approval. Both have since signed additional 100 million dose contracts, and Moderna an option for an additional 150 million. Operation Warp Speed worked with Moderna, spent a lot of money on both them and various parts of the supply chain to do the best to manufacture this new type vaccine as fast as possible, and I've not heard anything about their failing in their promises. Whereas Pfizer initially went it alone, and starting in December has been failing to keep their promises everywhere, now even shutting down their plant in Belgium to increase capacity.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    Yeah, I appear to have misunderstood or misremembered something, the Moderna order was 100 million doses. It's very hard to evaluate whether they have proceeded on the fastest possible timeline scaling up the production. Which whether their goals were ambitious enough is just as important as whether they are hitting them.
- bluGill 6y ago
  The US bet on many different vaccines, most of which haven't arrived yet, but are still on track. On hindsight we can say we should have bet on Pfizer and Moderna, and screwed the rest - such a bet would have allowed them to increase their supply even faster. However that is hindsight, at the time we didn't have any reason to believe their vaccine would even work at all - while the ones we are waiting on we had good reason to believe would work. That some of the ones we are waiting on seem to be much worse is a shock to everyone. Even this much worse is a qualified - they are doing within the expected range, it is just that mRNA is doing so well that makes them bad.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    We could have bet 10 times the resources. Cheap compared to the pandemic!
jacquesm 6y ago
They could have wanted to pay that much but that does not mean that the vaccines would have been there in that quantity. Much easier to fill Israel's order at that price than Europe's at the same price or even a higher one.

Hunisgung 6y ago

> the regional price that the IA got was $3 per dose, the commission stepped in trying to get it down to $2. Meanwhile in France, I can do a RT-PCR test paid by the state (around 50$ AFAIK) every other day with no question asked.

peteretep 6y ago
My understanding is that the rich countries like France were willing to do a deal on day 1, but the commission stepped in to negotiate for everyone
- flor1s 6y ago
  Having all countries in the EU in the same boat when it comes to vaccines seems like a good thing to me. Now we have this spat between the EU and UK, but if every nation in the EU negotiated by themselves we might have a conflict between EU countries themselves... That's not to say the EU didn't screw up along the way.

maxerickson 6y ago

The US spent quite a lot, but still came in very conservative. The initial orders (combined) of Pfizer/Moderna were enough for 75 million people. Vs likely demand of at least 200 million. For $40 billion (which we are estimated to lose every 4 or 5 days), we could have ordered 300 million of each of them. There's likely some materials that are scarce enough not to waste (we need billions of vaccines globally), but production also seems to have started very late in the trial/approval process.

Throwawayaerlei 6y ago
Sources? Because everything I've read is that each got a 100 million dose initial order, so that's 100 million people total to begin with. Moderna was already part of Operation Warp Speed, the contract signed 11 August 2020 according to Wikipedia. Pfizer refused to be a part of it, but in July 2020 signed a 100 million dose order contingent on getting regulatory approval. Both have since signed additional 100 million dose contracts, and Moderna an option for an additional 150 million. Operation Warp Speed worked with Moderna, spent a lot of money on both them and various parts of the supply chain to do the best to manufacture this new type vaccine as fast as possible, and I've not heard anything about their failing in their promises. Whereas Pfizer initially went it alone, and starting in December has been failing to keep their promises everywhere, now even shutting down their plant in Belgium to increase capacity.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  Yeah, I appear to have misunderstood or misremembered something, the Moderna order was 100 million doses. It's very hard to evaluate whether they have proceeded on the fastest possible timeline scaling up the production. Which whether their goals were ambitious enough is just as important as whether they are hitting them.
bluGill 6y ago
The US bet on many different vaccines, most of which haven't arrived yet, but are still on track. On hindsight we can say we should have bet on Pfizer and Moderna, and screwed the rest - such a bet would have allowed them to increase their supply even faster. However that is hindsight, at the time we didn't have any reason to believe their vaccine would even work at all - while the ones we are waiting on we had good reason to believe would work. That some of the ones we are waiting on seem to be much worse is a shock to everyone. Even this much worse is a qualified - they are doing within the expected range, it is just that mRNA is doing so well that makes them bad.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  We could have bet 10 times the resources. Cheap compared to the pandemic!

jacquesm 6y ago

They could have wanted to pay that much but that does not mean that the vaccines would have been there in that quantity. Much easier to fill Israel's order at that price than Europe's at the same price or even a higher one.