6 ms·

Trying to figure out the "fundamental" value of anything is a fools errand. Im not saying GME wont drop eventually but there is no value on fundamentals of ever

by jzoch 6y ago

Trying to figure out the "fundamental" value of anything is a fools errand. Im not saying GME wont drop eventually but there is no value on fundamentals of everything. Look at all the short-sellers of TSLA who made the same mistake. These companies are valued on what the market decides and we all know "The market is irrational".

shyn3 6y ago
Wsb can remain irrational longer than the market can remain solvent. That was a comment by a poster which I find funny.
- jdminhbg 6y ago
  This is a common aphorism, attributed sometimes to Keynes: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/08/09/remain-solvent/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/08/09/remain-solvent/
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - markrages 6y ago
    It is a funny spin on that aphorism.
  - girvo 6y ago
    Right but the WSB one is inverted.
  - rualca 6y ago
    I'm not sure you understood the web saying. Its meaning has nothing to do with Keynes' quote. It's instead a clever play on words that refers to the recurrent accusation (and subsequent meme) that WSB are a bunch of autists/retards who don't have any idea of what they are doing and thus are doing it entirely wrong, and the defiant reply from the WSB crowd where they state they are ready and able to continue doing it for far longer than what hedge funds, who are throwing rivers of cash at the problem, are able to withstand no matter the cost.
- somerandomness 6y ago
  I believe the term is “retarded”
- Rapzid 6y ago
  Until Monday when the bills are due and their wives(let's be honest, this crazy train is the T train) discover their bank accounts are empty.
  - fakedang 6y ago
    But what about the wives' boyfriends' accounts?
  - stretchcat 6y ago
    Twitter commentators have assured me these men are all incels, so that won't be a problem.
    - dang 6y ago
      Could you please stop posting flamebait to HN? We've asked you before. Also, comments like the last bit of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25873304 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25873304 are bannable offences on HN for obvious reasons. Please don't do anything like that again. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd be grateful. You've also posted good comments, so that should be doable.
      - stretchcat 6y ago
        Blow it out your ass, dang.
- rubinelli 6y ago
  Funny, but it suggests the market hasn't learned anything from 2008.
- northern-lights 6y ago
  Not quite accurate. It's - WSB can remain retarded longer than you can remain solvent.
tinyhouse 6y ago
You're taking a couple of exceptions and deduct that fundamentals don't matter. That's like taking two people who smoke and reached 90 without cancer and assume cancer studies are fools errand.
- PartiallyTyped 6y ago
  AMD in 2015. NVDIA same period. Literally all the positions of Citron that Andrew Left missed the mark with over an order of magnitude difference. Many tech companies.
  - tinyhouse 6y ago
    Here's a quote from your guy DFV: "Well as a longer-term investor I have the benefit of heavily discounting daily moves. I care much more about the longer-term charts, and these have been fairly constructive for months now. Even today, after the typical quarterly sell-off, the longer-term chart still looks decent so there’s been nothing to panic over. Let’s see what the price does over the next few weeks. Of course charts are only a minor part of the equation in my opinion. The fundamentals are much more important in a situation like this."
    - PartiallyTyped 6y ago
      Simply saying 'fundamentals' allows one to nullify things they don't understand, like owning the rights to one of the biggest duopolies (x86 that without one becomes a monopoly). The issue with tech, much like math, is that it often takes a while to figure out all the potential, case in point GPGPUs and Deep Learning revolution. The tech, the ideas, the internal code/models, the people (Jim Keller in AMD, and TSLA) are all catalysts that can't be quantified in the same way as traditional 'fundamentals' are treated.
      - tinyhouse 6y ago
        I don't argue with that. It's called growth opportunities. But don't you think that a business losing customers quarter after quarter is a bad sign? Or that having a debt bigger than it can afford? etc. Let me say this, you cannot ignore the fundamentals until you can... (e.g., GME)
brokencode 6y ago
In the long run, the market gets more rational. In the short term, anything can happen. Humans are emotional and make mistakes, but most investors at least attempt to make sound investments, and that’s what drives the market at the end of the day. If GameStop the company continues its failing trajectory, then GameStop the stock will eventually follow.
ggggtez 6y ago
To be honest, this is kind of the problem I have to stock investing as a whole. It sounds great to "invest on the fundamentals", but there doesn't appear to be a way for the average person to even comprehend what "the fundamentals" even are. But there has to be at least one fundamental: If the company goes bankrupt, the stock is worth nothing. Gamestop is most certainly going to go bankrupt eventually. Their business model doesn't work for today's market. No one is going to convince me that GameStop has a way to avoid that eventuality.
- Quekid5 6y ago
  > "fundamentals" You're right to call this out. It means absolutely nothing. These massive hedge funds (etc.) throw around billions of dollars on a whim and suddenly they're worried about "fundamentals"? C'mon.
- tootie 6y ago
  You can literally just look at the P/E ratio and the yield on google finance. 50 years ago that was all you needed to know.
- pishpash 6y ago
  "Gamestop" is a string of letters. Unless it has a pile of unrestructurable liabilities, what's forcing it to become bankrupt vs. being a startup?
  - adolph 6y ago
    Probably its directors, who would probably be part of a startup if it was in their nature. As a director of GameStop they likely have other fine competencies suitable for running a large reseller org.
  - tartoran 6y ago
    It’s its management. Gamestop wasnt able to catch up with the times and a pile of money won’t help them. The model isn’t vaible anymore and if they pivot into something else they may as well change the name as it would be irrelevant. A start up experiences most progress when they’re small and nimble. I assume Gamestop as a corp has accumulated a lot of cruft and that would hold them back.

by jzoch 6y ago

shyn3 6y ago

Wsb can remain irrational longer than the market can remain solvent. That was a comment by a poster which I find funny.

jdminhbg 6y ago
This is a common aphorism, attributed sometimes to Keynes: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/08/09/remain-solvent/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/08/09/remain-solvent/
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- markrages 6y ago
  It is a funny spin on that aphorism.
- girvo 6y ago
  Right but the WSB one is inverted.
- rualca 6y ago
  I'm not sure you understood the web saying. Its meaning has nothing to do with Keynes' quote. It's instead a clever play on words that refers to the recurrent accusation (and subsequent meme) that WSB are a bunch of autists/retards who don't have any idea of what they are doing and thus are doing it entirely wrong, and the defiant reply from the WSB crowd where they state they are ready and able to continue doing it for far longer than what hedge funds, who are throwing rivers of cash at the problem, are able to withstand no matter the cost.
somerandomness 6y ago
I believe the term is “retarded”
Rapzid 6y ago
Until Monday when the bills are due and their wives(let's be honest, this crazy train is the T train) discover their bank accounts are empty.
- fakedang 6y ago
  But what about the wives' boyfriends' accounts?
- stretchcat 6y ago
  Twitter commentators have assured me these men are all incels, so that won't be a problem.
  - dang 6y ago
    Could you please stop posting flamebait to HN? We've asked you before. Also, comments like the last bit of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25873304 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25873304 are bannable offences on HN for obvious reasons. Please don't do anything like that again. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd be grateful. You've also posted good comments, so that should be doable.
    - stretchcat 6y ago
      Blow it out your ass, dang.
rubinelli 6y ago
Funny, but it suggests the market hasn't learned anything from 2008.
northern-lights 6y ago
Not quite accurate. It's - WSB can remain retarded longer than you can remain solvent.

tinyhouse 6y ago

You're taking a couple of exceptions and deduct that fundamentals don't matter. That's like taking two people who smoke and reached 90 without cancer and assume cancer studies are fools errand.

PartiallyTyped 6y ago
AMD in 2015. NVDIA same period. Literally all the positions of Citron that Andrew Left missed the mark with over an order of magnitude difference. Many tech companies.
- tinyhouse 6y ago
  Here's a quote from your guy DFV: "Well as a longer-term investor I have the benefit of heavily discounting daily moves. I care much more about the longer-term charts, and these have been fairly constructive for months now. Even today, after the typical quarterly sell-off, the longer-term chart still looks decent so there’s been nothing to panic over. Let’s see what the price does over the next few weeks. Of course charts are only a minor part of the equation in my opinion. The fundamentals are much more important in a situation like this."
  - PartiallyTyped 6y ago
    Simply saying 'fundamentals' allows one to nullify things they don't understand, like owning the rights to one of the biggest duopolies (x86 that without one becomes a monopoly). The issue with tech, much like math, is that it often takes a while to figure out all the potential, case in point GPGPUs and Deep Learning revolution. The tech, the ideas, the internal code/models, the people (Jim Keller in AMD, and TSLA) are all catalysts that can't be quantified in the same way as traditional 'fundamentals' are treated.
    - tinyhouse 6y ago
      I don't argue with that. It's called growth opportunities. But don't you think that a business losing customers quarter after quarter is a bad sign? Or that having a debt bigger than it can afford? etc. Let me say this, you cannot ignore the fundamentals until you can... (e.g., GME)

brokencode 6y ago

In the long run, the market gets more rational. In the short term, anything can happen. Humans are emotional and make mistakes, but most investors at least attempt to make sound investments, and that’s what drives the market at the end of the day. If GameStop the company continues its failing trajectory, then GameStop the stock will eventually follow.

ggggtez 6y ago

To be honest, this is kind of the problem I have to stock investing as a whole. It sounds great to "invest on the fundamentals", but there doesn't appear to be a way for the average person to even comprehend what "the fundamentals" even are. But there has to be at least one fundamental: If the company goes bankrupt, the stock is worth nothing. Gamestop is most certainly going to go bankrupt eventually. Their business model doesn't work for today's market. No one is going to convince me that GameStop has a way to avoid that eventuality.

Quekid5 6y ago
> "fundamentals" You're right to call this out. It means absolutely nothing. These massive hedge funds (etc.) throw around billions of dollars on a whim and suddenly they're worried about "fundamentals"? C'mon.
tootie 6y ago
You can literally just look at the P/E ratio and the yield on google finance. 50 years ago that was all you needed to know.
pishpash 6y ago
"Gamestop" is a string of letters. Unless it has a pile of unrestructurable liabilities, what's forcing it to become bankrupt vs. being a startup?
- adolph 6y ago
  Probably its directors, who would probably be part of a startup if it was in their nature. As a director of GameStop they likely have other fine competencies suitable for running a large reseller org.
- tartoran 6y ago
  It’s its management. Gamestop wasnt able to catch up with the times and a pile of money won’t help them. The model isn’t vaible anymore and if they pivot into something else they may as well change the name as it would be irrelevant. A start up experiences most progress when they’re small and nimble. I assume Gamestop as a corp has accumulated a lot of cruft and that would hold them back.