4 ms·

it's hilarious. people using ruby and python and wondering why they cant build web apps without copy pasting stuff off of stack overflow.

viraptor 6y ago
The question is not about stackoverflow, but googling in general. As in, without project documentation accessible.
- hrjfkgkgk 6y ago
  in the php world you usually have decent man pages for webservers handling php requests and generally speaking php frameworks and packages have good inline documentation. also there is a package for anything you may need and and ide will usually give hints based on that documentation. most frameworks come either with examples or commands to get your started. symfony even had their docs available for local reading as well. with python i always have to delve into reading obscure documentation that either makes no sense or is not up to date. and there are too few packages for what you normally need in a scalable app. so yeah you can write php code without googling, as long as you are not a complete noob in web development. if its 2021 and you still write code using vim and niche languages then you are doing it wrong, and indeed google is your only hope.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    There's nothing unique here. Virtually all libraries and languages have local version of docs. I think you're too biased to continue in good faith argument.
    - hrjfkgkgk 6y ago
      they all do, its just that some are better than others. i dont actually like php, but it has plenty of advantages when it comes to quick web app development even without googling. had a client once where its workers were day dreaming of a job in the valley and ofc they were using python. they bashed php on a daily basis, and as they were doing it, the php api was sole codebase running in production (essentially the company’s product) and running reliably for a few years. the python workers were still struggling with basics such as queues and isc, and digging through non existent or vaguely written documentation. was a fun experience watching them struggle as i basically cloned repos, read the code or entry points for that code and get things shipped. since then i started loving python. development is slower and my invoices keep coming. love it. occasionally i write some lib thats already been implemented in plenty of php and nodejs packages. oh same client had a ruby codebase that kept failing and couldnt find devs to work on it. fun times.
      - dumb_troll 6y ago
        The comment was about writing an app with no docs local or otherwise. That you hate python seems...irrelevant
  - tannhaeuser 6y ago
    > if its (sic!) 2021 and you still write code using vim and niche languages then you are doing it wrong That's literally what I keep hearing since 30 years lol (for vi proper not vim, that is).
    - lovemenot 6y ago
      I am guessing you're not a native English speaker. This comment is only precipitated by your use of (sic). If you are going to point out others' mistakes like that, it would be better not to make any yourself. There are many ways to rewrite your grammatically incorrect sentence. Here's one: That's literally what I have been hearing since 30 years ago lol Or another: That's literally what I kept hearing for 30 years lol For clarity, I have no problem with these grammatical errors and beg understanding for my own. Please lay off pointing out others' mistakes unless they impede understanding.
      - selfhoster11 6y ago
        Please familiarise yourself with the HN Guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Please don't dismiss comments for grammar or spelling mistakes. These are not substantial criticisms of the argument being made, and are IMO a form of ad-hominem.
        lovemenot 6y ago
        I would be grateful, if you could explain which of the guidelines I may have transgressed. I read them all and searched "grammar". Nothing comes to mind. My own comment was precipitated by the sneering tone I read in (sic!) Which itself points out a grammatical mistake unnecessarily. Then compounds this, by making a more egregious mistake. Really my comment was making the same point. Don't point out grammatical mistakes, which is the precise purpose of (sic).

viraptor 6y ago

The question is not about stackoverflow, but googling in general. As in, without project documentation accessible.

hrjfkgkgk 6y ago
in the php world you usually have decent man pages for webservers handling php requests and generally speaking php frameworks and packages have good inline documentation. also there is a package for anything you may need and and ide will usually give hints based on that documentation. most frameworks come either with examples or commands to get your started. symfony even had their docs available for local reading as well. with python i always have to delve into reading obscure documentation that either makes no sense or is not up to date. and there are too few packages for what you normally need in a scalable app. so yeah you can write php code without googling, as long as you are not a complete noob in web development. if its 2021 and you still write code using vim and niche languages then you are doing it wrong, and indeed google is your only hope.
- viraptor 6y ago
  There's nothing unique here. Virtually all libraries and languages have local version of docs. I think you're too biased to continue in good faith argument.
  - hrjfkgkgk 6y ago
    they all do, its just that some are better than others. i dont actually like php, but it has plenty of advantages when it comes to quick web app development even without googling. had a client once where its workers were day dreaming of a job in the valley and ofc they were using python. they bashed php on a daily basis, and as they were doing it, the php api was sole codebase running in production (essentially the company’s product) and running reliably for a few years. the python workers were still struggling with basics such as queues and isc, and digging through non existent or vaguely written documentation. was a fun experience watching them struggle as i basically cloned repos, read the code or entry points for that code and get things shipped. since then i started loving python. development is slower and my invoices keep coming. love it. occasionally i write some lib thats already been implemented in plenty of php and nodejs packages. oh same client had a ruby codebase that kept failing and couldnt find devs to work on it. fun times.
    - dumb_troll 6y ago
      The comment was about writing an app with no docs local or otherwise. That you hate python seems...irrelevant
- tannhaeuser 6y ago
  > if its (sic!) 2021 and you still write code using vim and niche languages then you are doing it wrong That's literally what I keep hearing since 30 years lol (for vi proper not vim, that is).
  - lovemenot 6y ago
    I am guessing you're not a native English speaker. This comment is only precipitated by your use of (sic). If you are going to point out others' mistakes like that, it would be better not to make any yourself. There are many ways to rewrite your grammatically incorrect sentence. Here's one: That's literally what I have been hearing since 30 years ago lol Or another: That's literally what I kept hearing for 30 years lol For clarity, I have no problem with these grammatical errors and beg understanding for my own. Please lay off pointing out others' mistakes unless they impede understanding.
    - selfhoster11 6y ago
      Please familiarise yourself with the HN Guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Please don't dismiss comments for grammar or spelling mistakes. These are not substantial criticisms of the argument being made, and are IMO a form of ad-hominem.
      - lovemenot 6y ago
        I would be grateful, if you could explain which of the guidelines I may have transgressed. I read them all and searched "grammar". Nothing comes to mind. My own comment was precipitated by the sneering tone I read in (sic!) Which itself points out a grammatical mistake unnecessarily. Then compounds this, by making a more egregious mistake. Really my comment was making the same point. Don't point out grammatical mistakes, which is the precise purpose of (sic).