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> Dealing with the SaaSS Problem > For the simple case, where you are doing your own computing on data in your own hands, the solution is simple: use your own

> Dealing with the SaaSS Problem > For the simple case, where you are doing your own computing on data in your own hands, the solution is simple: use your own copy of a free software application. > What if there is no free program available? A proprietary program or SaaSS would take away your freedom, so you shouldn't use those. You can contribute your time or your money to development of a free replacement. Statements like this are why GNU's and the FSF's arguments often fall apart. If someone wants to do something and free software is not available to help them achieve it, telling them to just not do it is not a good solution. Change requires compromise, and its counterproductive to hold such a firm stance.

crazypython 6y ago
> If someone wants to do something and free software is not available to help them achieve it, telling them to just not do it is not a good solution. I would be better served if I quit my music addiction on proprietary YouTube. Some would be better served with a paper todo list than proprietary Google Tasks– which lost several of my todo items. Robinhood's users may have been better served not buying stocks at all. Almost all people are better served turning off proprietary ad software. My point is– when proprietary software is so much "better", maybe we don't need to "replace" it, because while it has short-term benefits, it has negative consequences lurking beneath. To directly address your argument, I think we need to come up business models that make free software just as profitable or more profitable than nonfree software.
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  I support Free Software, but I don't find those instances to be convincing. None of them really illustrates an issue with power and control. > I would be better served if I quit my music addiction on proprietary YouTube. Would you be better served by a Free Software alternative, or is the issue with your overconsumption of music? > Some would be better served with a paper todo list than proprietary Google Tasks– which lost several of my todo items. Data-loss bugs are a serious issue whether or not the software is Free. > Robinhood's users may have been better served not buying stocks at all. What does that have to do with it?
  - crazypython 6y ago
    > Would you be better served by a Free Software alternative, or is the issue with your overconsumption of music? The issue is the proprietary algorithms of YouTube are designed to addict me to music, creating an overconsumption of music. > Data-loss bugs are a serious issue whether or not the software is Free. Dead trees and Emacs org-mode are both resilient against data loss.
    - ehershey 6y ago
      > Dead trees and Emacs org-mode are both resilient against data loss. How so? Emacs isn’t magic. It’s software. It has bugs. Countless things can cause data loss with paper—-rain, sweat, literally losing it, bad handwriting, wear and tear.
    - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
      > the proprietary algorithms of YouTube are designed to addict me to music Seems to me the interests of the user and the provider are pretty well aligned here. A good recommendation engine lets the user enjoy more music, and keeps the provider in business. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic here, but addiction isn't a common issue with music streaming. There's a reason it isn't regulated the way online casinos are. > Dead trees and Emacs org-mode are both resilient against data loss Dead trees are not resilient against data loss. They're clumsy to duplicate and are easily lost or destroyed. Emacs is just a text editor. There are plenty of relatively bug-free text editors, both Free and non-Free. Again though, I support Free Software, but don't see how these examples illustrate issues of power and control.
remram 6y ago
For sure "you shouldn't use those" doesn't sound like freedom at all. I understand what they are trying to say, but that statement is not sound.
- oliwarner 6y ago
  "Shouldn't" isn't "cannot". These are GNU philosophy pages, telling you how you can better live your life free of proprietary software. Of course it's a little lofty. But there's nothing wing with assuming high. It's really only because some people have told themselves they shouldn't use existing proprietary software that we have GNU and Linux and all the rest.
  - oliwarner 6y ago
    Gosh, welcome to Swypo City, I'm the mayor. "Nothing wrong with aiming high"
  - remram 6y ago
    If you told me about a "freedom diet" where you only eat one thing, I'd laugh. The fact that I can technically choose not to follow the diet any day I want doesn't help. Of course GNU can't force me to follow the decision they recommend every time, that doesn't change how their recommendations come across.

crazypython 6y ago

> If someone wants to do something and free software is not available to help them achieve it, telling them to just not do it is not a good solution. I would be better served if I quit my music addiction on proprietary YouTube. Some would be better served with a paper todo list than proprietary Google Tasks– which lost several of my todo items. Robinhood's users may have been better served not buying stocks at all. Almost all people are better served turning off proprietary ad software. My point is– when proprietary software is so much "better", maybe we don't need to "replace" it, because while it has short-term benefits, it has negative consequences lurking beneath. To directly address your argument, I think we need to come up business models that make free software just as profitable or more profitable than nonfree software.

MaxBarraclough 6y ago
I support Free Software, but I don't find those instances to be convincing. None of them really illustrates an issue with power and control. > I would be better served if I quit my music addiction on proprietary YouTube. Would you be better served by a Free Software alternative, or is the issue with your overconsumption of music? > Some would be better served with a paper todo list than proprietary Google Tasks– which lost several of my todo items. Data-loss bugs are a serious issue whether or not the software is Free. > Robinhood's users may have been better served not buying stocks at all. What does that have to do with it?
- crazypython 6y ago
  > Would you be better served by a Free Software alternative, or is the issue with your overconsumption of music? The issue is the proprietary algorithms of YouTube are designed to addict me to music, creating an overconsumption of music. > Data-loss bugs are a serious issue whether or not the software is Free. Dead trees and Emacs org-mode are both resilient against data loss.
  - ehershey 6y ago
    > Dead trees and Emacs org-mode are both resilient against data loss. How so? Emacs isn’t magic. It’s software. It has bugs. Countless things can cause data loss with paper—-rain, sweat, literally losing it, bad handwriting, wear and tear.
  - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
    > the proprietary algorithms of YouTube are designed to addict me to music Seems to me the interests of the user and the provider are pretty well aligned here. A good recommendation engine lets the user enjoy more music, and keeps the provider in business. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic here, but addiction isn't a common issue with music streaming. There's a reason it isn't regulated the way online casinos are. > Dead trees and Emacs org-mode are both resilient against data loss Dead trees are not resilient against data loss. They're clumsy to duplicate and are easily lost or destroyed. Emacs is just a text editor. There are plenty of relatively bug-free text editors, both Free and non-Free. Again though, I support Free Software, but don't see how these examples illustrate issues of power and control.

remram 6y ago

For sure "you shouldn't use those" doesn't sound like freedom at all. I understand what they are trying to say, but that statement is not sound.

oliwarner 6y ago
"Shouldn't" isn't "cannot". These are GNU philosophy pages, telling you how you can better live your life free of proprietary software. Of course it's a little lofty. But there's nothing wing with assuming high. It's really only because some people have told themselves they shouldn't use existing proprietary software that we have GNU and Linux and all the rest.
- oliwarner 6y ago
  Gosh, welcome to Swypo City, I'm the mayor. "Nothing wrong with aiming high"
- remram 6y ago
  If you told me about a "freedom diet" where you only eat one thing, I'd laugh. The fact that I can technically choose not to follow the diet any day I want doesn't help. Of course GNU can't force me to follow the decision they recommend every time, that doesn't change how their recommendations come across.