5 ms·

I remain living happily in the old days of PHP, somehow making functioning applications and being paid well. Life is easy and good.

whimsicalism 6y ago
Do you live in Europe?
- jellygraph 6y ago
  Or perhaps the Soviet Union.
- colecut 6y ago
  San Diego, California
hrjfkgkgk 6y ago
it's hilarious. people using ruby and python and wondering why they cant build web apps without copy pasting stuff off of stack overflow.
- viraptor 6y ago
  The question is not about stackoverflow, but googling in general. As in, without project documentation accessible.
  - hrjfkgkgk 6y ago
    in the php world you usually have decent man pages for webservers handling php requests and generally speaking php frameworks and packages have good inline documentation. also there is a package for anything you may need and and ide will usually give hints based on that documentation. most frameworks come either with examples or commands to get your started. symfony even had their docs available for local reading as well. with python i always have to delve into reading obscure documentation that either makes no sense or is not up to date. and there are too few packages for what you normally need in a scalable app. so yeah you can write php code without googling, as long as you are not a complete noob in web development. if its 2021 and you still write code using vim and niche languages then you are doing it wrong, and indeed google is your only hope.
    - viraptor 6y ago
      There's nothing unique here. Virtually all libraries and languages have local version of docs. I think you're too biased to continue in good faith argument.
      - hrjfkgkgk 6y ago
        they all do, its just that some are better than others. i dont actually like php, but it has plenty of advantages when it comes to quick web app development even without googling. had a client once where its workers were day dreaming of a job in the valley and ofc they were using python. they bashed php on a daily basis, and as they were doing it, the php api was sole codebase running in production (essentially the company’s product) and running reliably for a few years. the python workers were still struggling with basics such as queues and isc, and digging through non existent or vaguely written documentation. was a fun experience watching them struggle as i basically cloned repos, read the code or entry points for that code and get things shipped. since then i started loving python. development is slower and my invoices keep coming. love it. occasionally i write some lib thats already been implemented in plenty of php and nodejs packages. oh same client had a ruby codebase that kept failing and couldnt find devs to work on it. fun times.
        dumb_troll 6y ago
        The comment was about writing an app with no docs local or otherwise. That you hate python seems...irrelevant
    - tannhaeuser 6y ago
      > if its (sic!) 2021 and you still write code using vim and niche languages then you are doing it wrong That's literally what I keep hearing since 30 years lol (for vi proper not vim, that is).
      - lovemenot 6y ago
        I am guessing you're not a native English speaker. This comment is only precipitated by your use of (sic). If you are going to point out others' mistakes like that, it would be better not to make any yourself. There are many ways to rewrite your grammatically incorrect sentence. Here's one: That's literally what I have been hearing since 30 years ago lol Or another: That's literally what I kept hearing for 30 years lol For clarity, I have no problem with these grammatical errors and beg understanding for my own. Please lay off pointing out others' mistakes unless they impede understanding.
animex 6y ago
My last interview: the interviewers said I was the only candidate who didn't Google any syntax or articles after being given a small 60 min development task from scratch. I was applying for a senior dev role and if I couldn't deliver a tiny web app, I wouldn't hire me either. I could have just solved the task procedurally but I asked if they wanted to see a more OO solution to demo a bit more knowledge. I think back to that time and think how poor my env/tooling was back 5 years ago compared to today. I'm way more powerful now. Version control. Docker up an entire server architecture now with separated proxy, web, db server, env configs, & more. I routinely challenge myself to starting scratch projects to test myself because I rarely work on greenfield projects these days. When I encounter resistance in the workflow, I work to solve the roadblocks. I think this is an important dev exercise that brings alot of satisfaction. Constantly improve your tooling!
- qwantim1 6y ago
  It’s impressive what you say, but I would hire someone that would need to google to develop something if they were to code it quickly enough and to code it well.
  - crooked-v 6y ago
    Especially for the initial spinning-up part, given how rarely that happens compared to ongoing work.
- TaylorAlexander 6y ago
  Personally I make no attempt to write code without googling. In my position as a robotics engineer my work covers such a breadth that I guess I just outsource my memory to Google. I don’t remember the syntax for many common Linux commands. I don’t remember how bash scripts work. I constantly look recommended ways of solving certain problems. Google is just integrated in to my process.
  - beefield 6y ago
    This applies to me as well. There are lots and lots of small things I do so rarely that I just can't keep the details in my memory. And I really would love to be able to type "man scp" and on the first lines of the man page to just get a couple of basic examples that I could basically copy-paste and change the server addresses to suit. But instead I get a ciphertext of all possible flags I can use, so in the end it is just faster to go directly to qwant.com and type "scp example"
theonething 6y ago
Sounds wonderful. Is your company hiring?
jeena 6y ago
I think I would die from boredom if I had your job doing the same thing which I know how to do over and over again. Wouldn't you just automate something like that with a Factory in Java? Somehow my brain works the exact opposite if I already know how to do something without googling it then it's not interesting anymore and I move on to the next thing outside of my comfort zone.
- astura 6y ago
  The fuck? I guess I know now why every other website pegs my CPU to 100% to slowly display static text and break the browser's back button - professional software engineers are "bored to death" when doing their job so they have to make things "interesting" in order to entertain themselves.
- colecut 6y ago
  I have a fiancee, I have a 10 year old child, She has 9 and 7 year olds. We live together, I work from home, they school from home. I manage to not get bored.

whimsicalism 6y ago

Do you live in Europe?

jellygraph 6y ago
Or perhaps the Soviet Union.
colecut 6y ago
San Diego, California

hrjfkgkgk 6y ago

it's hilarious. people using ruby and python and wondering why they cant build web apps without copy pasting stuff off of stack overflow.

viraptor 6y ago
The question is not about stackoverflow, but googling in general. As in, without project documentation accessible.
- hrjfkgkgk 6y ago
  in the php world you usually have decent man pages for webservers handling php requests and generally speaking php frameworks and packages have good inline documentation. also there is a package for anything you may need and and ide will usually give hints based on that documentation. most frameworks come either with examples or commands to get your started. symfony even had their docs available for local reading as well. with python i always have to delve into reading obscure documentation that either makes no sense or is not up to date. and there are too few packages for what you normally need in a scalable app. so yeah you can write php code without googling, as long as you are not a complete noob in web development. if its 2021 and you still write code using vim and niche languages then you are doing it wrong, and indeed google is your only hope.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    There's nothing unique here. Virtually all libraries and languages have local version of docs. I think you're too biased to continue in good faith argument.
    - hrjfkgkgk 6y ago
      they all do, its just that some are better than others. i dont actually like php, but it has plenty of advantages when it comes to quick web app development even without googling. had a client once where its workers were day dreaming of a job in the valley and ofc they were using python. they bashed php on a daily basis, and as they were doing it, the php api was sole codebase running in production (essentially the company’s product) and running reliably for a few years. the python workers were still struggling with basics such as queues and isc, and digging through non existent or vaguely written documentation. was a fun experience watching them struggle as i basically cloned repos, read the code or entry points for that code and get things shipped. since then i started loving python. development is slower and my invoices keep coming. love it. occasionally i write some lib thats already been implemented in plenty of php and nodejs packages. oh same client had a ruby codebase that kept failing and couldnt find devs to work on it. fun times.
      - dumb_troll 6y ago
        The comment was about writing an app with no docs local or otherwise. That you hate python seems...irrelevant
  - tannhaeuser 6y ago
    > if its (sic!) 2021 and you still write code using vim and niche languages then you are doing it wrong That's literally what I keep hearing since 30 years lol (for vi proper not vim, that is).
    - lovemenot 6y ago
      I am guessing you're not a native English speaker. This comment is only precipitated by your use of (sic). If you are going to point out others' mistakes like that, it would be better not to make any yourself. There are many ways to rewrite your grammatically incorrect sentence. Here's one: That's literally what I have been hearing since 30 years ago lol Or another: That's literally what I kept hearing for 30 years lol For clarity, I have no problem with these grammatical errors and beg understanding for my own. Please lay off pointing out others' mistakes unless they impede understanding.

animex 6y ago

My last interview: the interviewers said I was the only candidate who didn't Google any syntax or articles after being given a small 60 min development task from scratch. I was applying for a senior dev role and if I couldn't deliver a tiny web app, I wouldn't hire me either. I could have just solved the task procedurally but I asked if they wanted to see a more OO solution to demo a bit more knowledge. I think back to that time and think how poor my env/tooling was back 5 years ago compared to today. I'm way more powerful now. Version control. Docker up an entire server architecture now with separated proxy, web, db server, env configs, & more. I routinely challenge myself to starting scratch projects to test myself because I rarely work on greenfield projects these days. When I encounter resistance in the workflow, I work to solve the roadblocks. I think this is an important dev exercise that brings alot of satisfaction. Constantly improve your tooling!

qwantim1 6y ago
It’s impressive what you say, but I would hire someone that would need to google to develop something if they were to code it quickly enough and to code it well.
- crooked-v 6y ago
  Especially for the initial spinning-up part, given how rarely that happens compared to ongoing work.
TaylorAlexander 6y ago
Personally I make no attempt to write code without googling. In my position as a robotics engineer my work covers such a breadth that I guess I just outsource my memory to Google. I don’t remember the syntax for many common Linux commands. I don’t remember how bash scripts work. I constantly look recommended ways of solving certain problems. Google is just integrated in to my process.
- beefield 6y ago
  This applies to me as well. There are lots and lots of small things I do so rarely that I just can't keep the details in my memory. And I really would love to be able to type "man scp" and on the first lines of the man page to just get a couple of basic examples that I could basically copy-paste and change the server addresses to suit. But instead I get a ciphertext of all possible flags I can use, so in the end it is just faster to go directly to qwant.com and type "scp example"

theonething 6y ago

Sounds wonderful. Is your company hiring?

jeena 6y ago

I think I would die from boredom if I had your job doing the same thing which I know how to do over and over again. Wouldn't you just automate something like that with a Factory in Java? Somehow my brain works the exact opposite if I already know how to do something without googling it then it's not interesting anymore and I move on to the next thing outside of my comfort zone.

astura 6y ago
The fuck? I guess I know now why every other website pegs my CPU to 100% to slowly display static text and break the browser's back button - professional software engineers are "bored to death" when doing their job so they have to make things "interesting" in order to entertain themselves.
colecut 6y ago
I have a fiancee, I have a 10 year old child, She has 9 and 7 year olds. We live together, I work from home, they school from home. I manage to not get bored.