4 ms·

>> There is no upside to allowing them in > I get what you are saying, and agree with your decision to not talk to the police They DID talk to the police. (Th

>> There is no upside to allowing them in > I get what you are saying, and agree with your decision to not talk to the police They DID talk to the police. (They said, "We'll answer any questions here") Bringing them inside your home really doesn't have an upside. I don't invite armed strangers inside my home as a rule, and making an exception is unnecessary.

Fnoord 6y ago
> I don't invite armed strangers inside my home as a rule, and making an exception is unnecessary. If your trust in a police officer is so low that you put them on equal ground as people who carry guns (criminals or police, in my country) then something is very wrong. You might be paranoid, you might live in a country where the law is corrupt, a combination of that, or something else. For sure, something is very wrong. I've helped the police with crime cases. Doing so, makes my society a little bit more safe and just. I also got help from police when I needed them. Then again, not living in USA. My secret is sauce is simple: be honest. If being honest gets you into trouble in your country, something's off.
- moate 6y ago
  Are you aware that one of the largest political issues in the US right now is exactly that: a complete lack of trust and respect in the police and how they go about their jobs? A popular slogan in the US is ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards) This is a comment on an article about how cops need to stop lying to people during investigations. I'm glad you think your cops are great, but we're trying to talk about how to reform them, we already know there is a problem. US police can lie to you in order to get information, in addition to a host of other abuses. Saying "be honest to cops and everything will be fine" feels a bit glib.
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    Yeah, I'm aware of that. ACAB in my country is forbidden, because its insulting a civil servant in office. If police are not allowed to lie while civilians can lie, the police are in a severe disadvantage. Perhaps the balance is tipped the wrong way, but the mere notion that police are allowed to lie isn't wrong in itself.
    - gremlinsinc 6y ago
      > ACAB in my country is forbidden The authoritarian worship in this comment really says enough about the totalitarianism of your country. Police are public servants. As such everything they do or say should be held under perjury. Police, leaders, government officials, lawyers, judges should know more about the laws than average citizens to. Being in a position of authority and having that power should come great responsibility, so great in fact that you should have to serve 3x the prison sentence for betraying that trust. Same should go as well for ethics violations for clergy, medical professionals, teachers, etc. you said earlier if it was your family who was murdered you'd hope the police would do something, no? What if it was the police who murdered your family? In L.A. the police are in actual "cliques" which are basically "gangs" with special tattoos and other gang related rights of passage. How do you trust the police when https://reddit.com/r/policebrutality2020 https://reddit.com/r/policebrutality2020 has thousands of links of police hurting people, yet when people in the "in group" that they respect (white nationalists) try to destroy the foundations of our democracy, they step aside and let it happen?
      - Fnoord 6y ago
        The totalitarianism in my country? I'm from The Netherlands, one of the most free and democratic countries in the world. With regards to police brutality, its a one sided view. Its an angle from a camera, from one point of view. It lacks different views, it lacks context. A body cam can show the context from the police PoV. To give an example [1] shows a woman who gets blasted by a water cannon. These are meant to drive people apart. However, at that point, these people were in an area where a demonstration (which was escalating into a riot and pillaging). The area was at that point forbidden to be (which always happens for a reason). If you don't listen to such, you're on your own. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm6IaWXIUc0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm6IaWXIUc0
- caturopath 6y ago
  It's a bit flippant to call a person dressed as a police officer you don't know an armed stranger, but it's factually true, which contextualizes the decision. I don't know what you think the upside is of letting someone in a police uniform you don't know to come into your home is, no matter how rosy your view of the police. That does not mean being completely unhelpful. That does not being unfriendly to police officers you know. That does not mean being unwelcome to police officers places that are open to the general public, like your porch, your business, your club's facility, etc. It just means that you keep your private residence private to people you didn't invite in unless legally required not to.
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    In my country, a police officer knocking on your door is going to be one assigned to your neighborhood. You can ask them for ID before you let them in. If you're on the good side of the law, there is no reason for fear.

Fnoord 6y ago

> I don't invite armed strangers inside my home as a rule, and making an exception is unnecessary. If your trust in a police officer is so low that you put them on equal ground as people who carry guns (criminals or police, in my country) then something is very wrong. You might be paranoid, you might live in a country where the law is corrupt, a combination of that, or something else. For sure, something is very wrong. I've helped the police with crime cases. Doing so, makes my society a little bit more safe and just. I also got help from police when I needed them. Then again, not living in USA. My secret is sauce is simple: be honest. If being honest gets you into trouble in your country, something's off.

moate 6y ago
Are you aware that one of the largest political issues in the US right now is exactly that: a complete lack of trust and respect in the police and how they go about their jobs? A popular slogan in the US is ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards) This is a comment on an article about how cops need to stop lying to people during investigations. I'm glad you think your cops are great, but we're trying to talk about how to reform them, we already know there is a problem. US police can lie to you in order to get information, in addition to a host of other abuses. Saying "be honest to cops and everything will be fine" feels a bit glib.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  Yeah, I'm aware of that. ACAB in my country is forbidden, because its insulting a civil servant in office. If police are not allowed to lie while civilians can lie, the police are in a severe disadvantage. Perhaps the balance is tipped the wrong way, but the mere notion that police are allowed to lie isn't wrong in itself.
  - gremlinsinc 6y ago
    > ACAB in my country is forbidden The authoritarian worship in this comment really says enough about the totalitarianism of your country. Police are public servants. As such everything they do or say should be held under perjury. Police, leaders, government officials, lawyers, judges should know more about the laws than average citizens to. Being in a position of authority and having that power should come great responsibility, so great in fact that you should have to serve 3x the prison sentence for betraying that trust. Same should go as well for ethics violations for clergy, medical professionals, teachers, etc. you said earlier if it was your family who was murdered you'd hope the police would do something, no? What if it was the police who murdered your family? In L.A. the police are in actual "cliques" which are basically "gangs" with special tattoos and other gang related rights of passage. How do you trust the police when https://reddit.com/r/policebrutality2020 https://reddit.com/r/policebrutality2020 has thousands of links of police hurting people, yet when people in the "in group" that they respect (white nationalists) try to destroy the foundations of our democracy, they step aside and let it happen?
    - Fnoord 6y ago
      The totalitarianism in my country? I'm from The Netherlands, one of the most free and democratic countries in the world. With regards to police brutality, its a one sided view. Its an angle from a camera, from one point of view. It lacks different views, it lacks context. A body cam can show the context from the police PoV. To give an example [1] shows a woman who gets blasted by a water cannon. These are meant to drive people apart. However, at that point, these people were in an area where a demonstration (which was escalating into a riot and pillaging). The area was at that point forbidden to be (which always happens for a reason). If you don't listen to such, you're on your own. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm6IaWXIUc0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm6IaWXIUc0
caturopath 6y ago
It's a bit flippant to call a person dressed as a police officer you don't know an armed stranger, but it's factually true, which contextualizes the decision. I don't know what you think the upside is of letting someone in a police uniform you don't know to come into your home is, no matter how rosy your view of the police. That does not mean being completely unhelpful. That does not being unfriendly to police officers you know. That does not mean being unwelcome to police officers places that are open to the general public, like your porch, your business, your club's facility, etc. It just means that you keep your private residence private to people you didn't invite in unless legally required not to.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  In my country, a police officer knocking on your door is going to be one assigned to your neighborhood. You can ask them for ID before you let them in. If you're on the good side of the law, there is no reason for fear.