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That is a weird assumption to make about wsb types, who have a sizable overlap with the crypto-currency folks - who are keenly aware of counterparty risk and th

by tal8d 6y ago

That is a weird assumption to make about wsb types, who have a sizable overlap with the crypto-currency folks - who are keenly aware of counterparty risk and the function of clearinghouses.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> crypto-currency folks - who are keenly aware of counterparty risk and the function of clearinghouses There are zero (EDIT: very few) clearinghouses in the cryptocurrency world. That's...almost the point.
- tal8d 6y ago
  ...yes, that is my point. Anyone who deals with crypto is aware of it.
- nullc 6y ago
  That isn't entirely the case: https://www.ledgerx.com/clearing https://www.ledgerx.com/clearing But I found the prior comment about cryptocurrency people having particular expertise here laughable... plus rWSB aggressively prohibits any mention of Bitcoin, I don't think it's accurate to suggest that there is a lot of overlap regardless.
majormajor 6y ago
A less charitable scenario here is that there's a couple cohorts of WSB folks: a somewhat sophisticated set who got in on the Gamestop frenzy earlier (even last week!), and a less sophisticated set who are buying now. The former make $$$$ off of the latter, and when things go sideways, just have plausible-enough sounding stories to point that second set of angry people at the hedge fund baddies instead of themselves... If we're speculating about people's motives, let's look at everyone ;)
- tal8d 6y ago
  Well we could continue stacking assumption upon assumption, with regard to conspiracy, but it looks a little goofy. But who knows, maybe this will be one time Wall Street wasn't the one conspiring, and it was in fact a shadowy flash mob puppet master who executed an uncoordinated attack through emergent behavior. And then we'll finally find the Russian hooker piss tapes.
  - majormajor 6y ago
    It's certainly not uncoordinated - the coordinated squeeze attempt is literally the whole advertised point! I'm just amused that the motives of the folks making huge money off of this are going largely unexamined. If you wanted to talk me into buying Gamestop now, you'd have to convince me that it's not just a way of cashing yourself out. (I also think it's a little dirty, at best, for any experienced investor to be talking newcomers in to buying this shit at this point.)
    - tal8d 6y ago
      > ...are going largely unexamined. I've been hearing plenty of accusations of pump and dump, with no further examination. So I don't think that opinion is underrepresented. It is effectively noise anyway, because the same can be said of any investment.
- nullc 6y ago
  > (even last week!) People have been trying to pump this trade since at least September: https://files.catbox.moe/2cp8f9.jpg https://files.catbox.moe/2cp8f9.jpg
tedunangst 6y ago
Well then I'm not sure why they'd find the clearinghouse explanation so hard to believe. Robinhood has a history of poor controls. A year or so ago there was a story about a user who ended up negative a million because they failed to do a proper margin call. DTCC is probably rightfully skeptical that RH has the situation under control.
- tal8d 6y ago
  Because it isn't an either or scenario. I'm sure they are concerned about not having a chair when the music stops. But their relationship with Citadel (who has been fined for thing like frontrunning) can't be ignored. All their incentives go in the opposite direction from their users.
kibwen 6y ago
A week ago WSB had 2M subscribers (https://subredditstats.com/r/wallstreetbets https://subredditstats.com/r/wallstreetbets), whereas today they have 6M subscribers. The large majority of the people involved here haven't been WSB types for more than a few days, and it seems safe to assume they're new to the financial scene.
- rorykoehler 6y ago
  I'm one of the 4M new subscribers. I am not new to WSB though. I didn't sub because I didn't want the noise but seeing as this is interesting to me now I subbed. I'm sure there are plenty of others in the same boat.
seabird 6y ago
WSB has experienced ~6x growth in the last month. The vast majority of it is people who have no idea what forces are at play, and think that this is some way to dunk on a hedge fund with mechanisms they don't understand. They're a long ways out from even knowing that a clearing house exists.

by tal8d 6y ago

That is a weird assumption to make about wsb types, who have a sizable overlap with the crypto-currency folks - who are keenly aware of counterparty risk and the function of clearinghouses.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

> crypto-currency folks - who are keenly aware of counterparty risk and the function of clearinghouses There are zero (EDIT: very few) clearinghouses in the cryptocurrency world. That's...almost the point.

tal8d 6y ago
...yes, that is my point. Anyone who deals with crypto is aware of it.
nullc 6y ago
That isn't entirely the case: https://www.ledgerx.com/clearing https://www.ledgerx.com/clearing But I found the prior comment about cryptocurrency people having particular expertise here laughable... plus rWSB aggressively prohibits any mention of Bitcoin, I don't think it's accurate to suggest that there is a lot of overlap regardless.

majormajor 6y ago

A less charitable scenario here is that there's a couple cohorts of WSB folks: a somewhat sophisticated set who got in on the Gamestop frenzy earlier (even last week!), and a less sophisticated set who are buying now. The former make $$$$ off of the latter, and when things go sideways, just have plausible-enough sounding stories to point that second set of angry people at the hedge fund baddies instead of themselves... If we're speculating about people's motives, let's look at everyone ;)

tal8d 6y ago
Well we could continue stacking assumption upon assumption, with regard to conspiracy, but it looks a little goofy. But who knows, maybe this will be one time Wall Street wasn't the one conspiring, and it was in fact a shadowy flash mob puppet master who executed an uncoordinated attack through emergent behavior. And then we'll finally find the Russian hooker piss tapes.
- majormajor 6y ago
  It's certainly not uncoordinated - the coordinated squeeze attempt is literally the whole advertised point! I'm just amused that the motives of the folks making huge money off of this are going largely unexamined. If you wanted to talk me into buying Gamestop now, you'd have to convince me that it's not just a way of cashing yourself out. (I also think it's a little dirty, at best, for any experienced investor to be talking newcomers in to buying this shit at this point.)
  - tal8d 6y ago
    > ...are going largely unexamined. I've been hearing plenty of accusations of pump and dump, with no further examination. So I don't think that opinion is underrepresented. It is effectively noise anyway, because the same can be said of any investment.
nullc 6y ago
> (even last week!) People have been trying to pump this trade since at least September: https://files.catbox.moe/2cp8f9.jpg https://files.catbox.moe/2cp8f9.jpg

tedunangst 6y ago

Well then I'm not sure why they'd find the clearinghouse explanation so hard to believe. Robinhood has a history of poor controls. A year or so ago there was a story about a user who ended up negative a million because they failed to do a proper margin call. DTCC is probably rightfully skeptical that RH has the situation under control.

tal8d 6y ago
Because it isn't an either or scenario. I'm sure they are concerned about not having a chair when the music stops. But their relationship with Citadel (who has been fined for thing like frontrunning) can't be ignored. All their incentives go in the opposite direction from their users.

kibwen 6y ago

A week ago WSB had 2M subscribers (https://subredditstats.com/r/wallstreetbets https://subredditstats.com/r/wallstreetbets), whereas today they have 6M subscribers. The large majority of the people involved here haven't been WSB types for more than a few days, and it seems safe to assume they're new to the financial scene.

rorykoehler 6y ago
I'm one of the 4M new subscribers. I am not new to WSB though. I didn't sub because I didn't want the noise but seeing as this is interesting to me now I subbed. I'm sure there are plenty of others in the same boat.

seabird 6y ago

WSB has experienced ~6x growth in the last month. The vast majority of it is people who have no idea what forces are at play, and think that this is some way to dunk on a hedge fund with mechanisms they don't understand. They're a long ways out from even knowing that a clearing house exists.