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"""When you're lawyer gets on scene""" How does one actually _get_ a lawyer on the scene? If I haven't been arrested, am I eligible for a public defender? Do

by gknoy 6y ago

"""When you're lawyer gets on scene""" How does one actually _get_ a lawyer on the scene? If I haven't been arrested, am I eligible for a public defender? Do I need to already have one on retainer? I recognize the value of having one, but if a police officer came to my door right now, I don't know what to do if I don't already have a lawyer.

lr4444lr 6y ago
If you aren't arrested, then you aren't charged, and so no, you have no right to an attorney. Police can detain you on site for a little while in order to make the arrest/no arrest decision. At any time you can give police an ultimatum: am I free to go? If the answer is yes, you're done - say nothing more. If the answer is no, you can keep pestering them with questions until you get clarity on how you can or if you can get out of there, but that isn't the same as answering their questions.
ygjb 6y ago
This is extremely specific to jurisdiction; I would hope that anyone who responds with advice here will clearly state which jurisdiction they are referring to.
- mistersquid 6y ago
  > This is extremely specific to jurisdiction; In the US, a person’s rights are NOT specific with regard to jurisdiction. One’s rights are enshrined in what are colloquially referred to as Miranda Rights (issued as a Miranda Warning upon arrest) and they protect all people detained by the police in the US. [0] > You have the right to remain silent and refuse to answer questions. > Anything you say may be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to consult an attorney before speaking to the police and to have an attorney present during questioning now or in the future. > If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish. > If you decide to answer questions now without an attorney present, you will still have the right to stop answering at any time until you talk to an attorney. > Knowing and understanding your rights as I have explained them to you, are you willing to answer my questions without an attorney present? [1] [0] http://www.mirandawarning.org/whatareyourmirandarights.html http://www.mirandawarning.org/whatareyourmirandarights.html [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning
  - Retric 6y ago
    While true, only ~1/2 of HN readers are from the US so it’s still very dependent on their actual jurisdiction.
35fbe7d3d5b9 6y ago
> How does one actually _get_ a lawyer on the scene? General advice for the US here, as provided by a lawyer friend after a beer or two pre-Covid. First, you have to know if you are in custody. This is not as easy as you may think[1]. You say: "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?" If yes, leave, and find a lawyer. If the answer is no (or non-committal), you are under custody of the police. You will likely be forced to disclose your name but that and maybe your address should be what you disclose[2]. Now you need to make it clear that you are invoking your right to remain silent. Current jurisprudence around Miranda[3] makes it clear that is something you must actively invoke. It is not enough to remain silent, that will not stop an interrogation. You say: "I will not answer any questions until I have a lawyer present". Those two statements + your name are all you say. That is it. As far as getting a lawyer, you'll have an opportunity to contact one after the interview has been stopped. If you need a public defender you can ask for one at that time but you'll likely be better off contacting your state bar association and asking for a referral. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_District_Court_of_Nevada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_Distr... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berghuis_v._Thompkins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berghuis_v._Thompkins
citizenkeen 6y ago
You're not talking to the cops. So either, nothing happens, or they arrest you. If they arrest you, you inform them you request counsel. That's the Sixth Amendment. Invoking the Fifth doesn't get you a lawyer, but saying you request a public defender will speed things up.

by gknoy 6y ago

lr4444lr 6y ago

If you aren't arrested, then you aren't charged, and so no, you have no right to an attorney. Police can detain you on site for a little while in order to make the arrest/no arrest decision. At any time you can give police an ultimatum: am I free to go? If the answer is yes, you're done - say nothing more. If the answer is no, you can keep pestering them with questions until you get clarity on how you can or if you can get out of there, but that isn't the same as answering their questions.

ygjb 6y ago

This is extremely specific to jurisdiction; I would hope that anyone who responds with advice here will clearly state which jurisdiction they are referring to.

mistersquid 6y ago
> This is extremely specific to jurisdiction; In the US, a person’s rights are NOT specific with regard to jurisdiction. One’s rights are enshrined in what are colloquially referred to as Miranda Rights (issued as a Miranda Warning upon arrest) and they protect all people detained by the police in the US. [0] > You have the right to remain silent and refuse to answer questions. > Anything you say may be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to consult an attorney before speaking to the police and to have an attorney present during questioning now or in the future. > If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish. > If you decide to answer questions now without an attorney present, you will still have the right to stop answering at any time until you talk to an attorney. > Knowing and understanding your rights as I have explained them to you, are you willing to answer my questions without an attorney present? [1] [0] http://www.mirandawarning.org/whatareyourmirandarights.html http://www.mirandawarning.org/whatareyourmirandarights.html [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning
- Retric 6y ago
  While true, only ~1/2 of HN readers are from the US so it’s still very dependent on their actual jurisdiction.

35fbe7d3d5b9 6y ago

> How does one actually _get_ a lawyer on the scene? General advice for the US here, as provided by a lawyer friend after a beer or two pre-Covid. First, you have to know if you are in custody. This is not as easy as you may think[1]. You say: "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?" If yes, leave, and find a lawyer. If the answer is no (or non-committal), you are under custody of the police. You will likely be forced to disclose your name but that and maybe your address should be what you disclose[2]. Now you need to make it clear that you are invoking your right to remain silent. Current jurisprudence around Miranda[3] makes it clear that is something you must actively invoke. It is not enough to remain silent, that will not stop an interrogation. You say: "I will not answer any questions until I have a lawyer present". Those two statements + your name are all you say. That is it. As far as getting a lawyer, you'll have an opportunity to contact one after the interview has been stopped. If you need a public defender you can ask for one at that time but you'll likely be better off contacting your state bar association and asking for a referral. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_District_Court_of_Nevada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_Distr... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berghuis_v._Thompkins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berghuis_v._Thompkins

citizenkeen 6y ago

You're not talking to the cops. So either, nothing happens, or they arrest you. If they arrest you, you inform them you request counsel. That's the Sixth Amendment. Invoking the Fifth doesn't get you a lawyer, but saying you request a public defender will speed things up.