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Another advice: Always talk to the police -- AFTER GETTING IMMUNITY. Basically first if they ask you anything, say "I will happily comply with any questioning

Another advice: Always talk to the police -- AFTER GETTING IMMUNITY. Basically first if they ask you anything, say "I will happily comply with any questioning if you give me immunity in writing to this case or anything resulting from my answers." The cop who gave that presentation even mentioned getting an IRS call, and said that, they never called back. Point is, ask for immunity.

spacemanmatt 6y ago
My understanding of the law is, cops don't have the authority to grant immunity. I would want to get that promise from a prosecutor, minimum.
- DavidAdams 6y ago
  That's true. The cops would have to coordinate with the DA to make that happen. Which they would never bother to do unless they really needed your testimony, which is why it's a good way to get them to buzz off.
- dmurray 6y ago
  According to the article it's OK for the cops to lie about almost anything. There's not a lot to stop them saying "I have the authority to grant immunity" or "I am an official from the DA's office" or "I just called the DA and he approved the immunity" or "I just called the DA and he approved the immunity and he sent this confirmation by fax". Some of these might not really be de jure OK for the cops to tell you, but would you want to rely on a court upholding that?
  - nullc 6y ago
    Police have even pretended to be the accused's attorney-- not lawful-- but generally the only consequence of an unlawful interrogation technique is that they lose the conviction. ( https://reason.com/2011/03/08/tennessee-cops-posed-as-a-defe/ https://reason.com/2011/03/08/tennessee-cops-posed-as-a-defe... in this case, the trial court even allowed it-- it had to get overturned on appeal ) There is a whole subreddit (/r/legaladvice) where the moderators are all (almost all?) law enforcement officers, where they remove good information from actual attorneys and promote bogus "cop law" that is highly detrimental to the interests of the users.
    - selimthegrim 6y ago
      My favorite is when they denied an insufficiently formal request for counsel. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/suspect-asks-for-a-lawyer-dawg-judge-says-he-asked-for-a-lawyer-dog.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/suspect-asks-for...
      - jakelazaroff 6y ago
        That is horrifying.
  - spacemanmatt 6y ago
    Agreed. In addition to my belief that they lack authority, I know that it would be extremely uncommon for a cop to be able to provide a notarized document that would protect later when the cop denies his verbal grant of immunity.
- 35fbe7d3d5b9 6y ago
  They don't, so the absolute best case outcome of "asking a police officer for immunity" is "nothing happens". The worst case outcome is that police officer testifying to a jury that you agreed to answer questions about a crime once you had immunity. This is a terrible plan that ends terribly for you. Smart people think they'll be able to logic and reason themselves out of the crosshairs of the criminal justice system. But they're playing a game they don't know how to play and the odds are stacked for the house.
powersnail 6y ago
Can cops give you immunity? And given that cops can legally lie, that promise of immunity seems empty.
- zentiggr 6y ago
  That's why you ask for it in writing. They have to get that from the DA, and while it may not be a perfect shield, it's pretty solid. Either they go do the legwork or you avoid random liability for whatever you might have said.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    No no no. Don’t ever ask for immunity! That’s your lawyers job. When your lawyer asks for immunity it can’t be used against you in court. If you ask, it almost certainly will.
  - powersnail 6y ago
    That makes sense. But to be honest, if a police officer insist on questioning me despite my initially refusing to answer, I'd just ask for a lawyer. I won't trust myself to handle legal processes, and I certainly won't be able tell if the police had forged a document for me to sign.
  - 35fbe7d3d5b9 6y ago
    Under American law this is probably the worst possible advice you could give someone. Why? Because if you end up in front of a jury, that police officer is going to testify to that jury that you said "you'd tell them anything when they granted you immunity", a truthful statement, and the jury is going to fill in whatever gaps the prosecutor suggests they fill in. If you are in police custody you ask for nothing from the police. You tell them that you are remaining silent until your lawyer arrives. And then you shut up.
  - zentiggr 6y ago
    I'll have to agree with the replies I received - say nothing until you have counsel who can handle things the best way possible.
caturopath 6y ago
> Always talk to the police -- AFTER YOUR LAWYER TELLS YOU TO SAY WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SAY FTFY ;) A cop can't grant you immunity, and most people wouldn't know what it meant if you did have an immunity agreement.
- notahacker 6y ago
  Also, an up front request for immunity is a massive red flag that says "I'm probably involved in the illegal thing, or some other illegal thing", which is not how you want to introduce yourself to a police officer, especially if you're not a serious suspect at the time. Even if the cop could grant it, why would he? Obviously different if your lawyer says that requesting immunity might work, probably because you're knee deep in someone else's mess and their experience tells them that prosecution will be far more interested in your testimony against them than stuff you might need to admit to.
jancsika 6y ago
In the anecdote the student did ask for immunity, but only after talking to a lawyer first. It was the lawyer's advice to ask for immunity. The bigger lesson was not to ask for immunity, but to refuse to say anything without your lawyer present. (...and then, obviously, to only say things if your lawyer advises you to do so.)
u678u 6y ago
IRS never calls, it was a scammer. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/how-to-know-its-really-the-irs-calling-or-knocking-on-your-door https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/how-to-know-its-really-the-irs-...
jakelazaroff 6y ago
Are you a lawyer? This seems like pretty irresponsible advice to give from an armchair, tbh. IANAL, but if you're arrested, just ask for a lawyer. Don't try to play weird games like asking for immunity. The police have played them way more than you, you don't know the legal system and you will probably lose.
sandworm101 6y ago
>> Always talk to the police -- AFTER GETTING IMMUNITY. No no no, a thousand times no. Immunity is a very nuanced thing that, in the US especially, is beyond the understanding of laypersons. Talk only to and through YOUR lawyer. Don't go anywhere near any talk of "immunity" without several days to discuss the matter with paid legal counsel.
- cogman10 6y ago
  And, AFAIK, the police themselves CANNOT GRANT IMMUNITY. Only the prosecutor can sign an immunity deal with you. By the time you are talking to a prosecutor, you should have your lawyer involved.
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    Not even the prosecutor. The US is a strange dual sovereignty system (state and federal) and so you need multiple prosecutors to agree. State immunity can be respected by the feds, and vis versa, but that is not absolute. Similarly, US prosecutors cannot grant immunity for crimes in other countries such as crimes that cross boarders. US immunity might mean end many travel options.
    - senkora 6y ago
      I’m not sure I would call that “strange”; it’s just the meaning of federalism. Federal means that subnational units have some limited sovereignty, versus unitary where only the toplevel government has sovereignty.
      - sandworm101 6y ago
        Not really. Canada is federalized, but still has a unitary authority for prosecution of crimes. There are very few countries operating parallel authorities, parallel criminal courts. Most countries have a unitary authority structure with the national government being the highest source of law. The US operates a bifurcated structure where States (50+ of them) are often the final authority on criminal matters. That is strange.
tehwebguy 6y ago
Have your attorney ask for immunity and confirm to you that it’s then safe to talk with police (your attorney will just say, “No!!!!” when you ask them)
valuearb 6y ago
Asking for immunity can be used against you in court. “Officer, was there anything strange about the defendants response to finding out his ex-roomate had been murdered?” “Well he immediately asked for immunity to cover his actions in the crime” Never talk to the police, refer them to your lawyer.
- watwut 6y ago
  I mean, if you ask for immunity out of nowhere, it does make one think about what exactly you want immunity from. One does not have to be manipulative narcissist to figure that one out.
rdtsc 6y ago
How would I know what immunity looks like? Police can and do lie to people to get them to confess to stuff. "We'll go easy on you, we promise", or "this is off the record, you can tell us anything now" etc. So what stops them from saying something like "sure, you got immunity, now let us in".
dragonwriter 6y ago
> The cop who gave that presentation even mentioned getting an IRS call, and said that, they never called back. The IRS would never call you in a situation where that would matter, and in fact they try very hard to make that public since fake IRS enforcement calls are a very common scam. So the cop was either lying to you, or was caught in a scam and accidentally scared them off by showing they weren't going to immediately buckle under, without even realizing it was a scam. Ask for a lawyer, not immunity. And take legal advice from your lawyer, not from cops who, as a class, have neither the knowledge nor the motivation to give good advice.

spacemanmatt 6y ago

My understanding of the law is, cops don't have the authority to grant immunity. I would want to get that promise from a prosecutor, minimum.

DavidAdams 6y ago
That's true. The cops would have to coordinate with the DA to make that happen. Which they would never bother to do unless they really needed your testimony, which is why it's a good way to get them to buzz off.
dmurray 6y ago
According to the article it's OK for the cops to lie about almost anything. There's not a lot to stop them saying "I have the authority to grant immunity" or "I am an official from the DA's office" or "I just called the DA and he approved the immunity" or "I just called the DA and he approved the immunity and he sent this confirmation by fax". Some of these might not really be de jure OK for the cops to tell you, but would you want to rely on a court upholding that?
- nullc 6y ago
  Police have even pretended to be the accused's attorney-- not lawful-- but generally the only consequence of an unlawful interrogation technique is that they lose the conviction. ( https://reason.com/2011/03/08/tennessee-cops-posed-as-a-defe/ https://reason.com/2011/03/08/tennessee-cops-posed-as-a-defe... in this case, the trial court even allowed it-- it had to get overturned on appeal ) There is a whole subreddit (/r/legaladvice) where the moderators are all (almost all?) law enforcement officers, where they remove good information from actual attorneys and promote bogus "cop law" that is highly detrimental to the interests of the users.
  - selimthegrim 6y ago
    My favorite is when they denied an insufficiently formal request for counsel. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/suspect-asks-for-a-lawyer-dawg-judge-says-he-asked-for-a-lawyer-dog.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/suspect-asks-for...
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      That is horrifying.
- spacemanmatt 6y ago
  Agreed. In addition to my belief that they lack authority, I know that it would be extremely uncommon for a cop to be able to provide a notarized document that would protect later when the cop denies his verbal grant of immunity.
35fbe7d3d5b9 6y ago
They don't, so the absolute best case outcome of "asking a police officer for immunity" is "nothing happens". The worst case outcome is that police officer testifying to a jury that you agreed to answer questions about a crime once you had immunity. This is a terrible plan that ends terribly for you. Smart people think they'll be able to logic and reason themselves out of the crosshairs of the criminal justice system. But they're playing a game they don't know how to play and the odds are stacked for the house.

powersnail 6y ago

Can cops give you immunity? And given that cops can legally lie, that promise of immunity seems empty.

zentiggr 6y ago
That's why you ask for it in writing. They have to get that from the DA, and while it may not be a perfect shield, it's pretty solid. Either they go do the legwork or you avoid random liability for whatever you might have said.
- valuearb 6y ago
  No no no. Don’t ever ask for immunity! That’s your lawyers job. When your lawyer asks for immunity it can’t be used against you in court. If you ask, it almost certainly will.
- powersnail 6y ago
  That makes sense. But to be honest, if a police officer insist on questioning me despite my initially refusing to answer, I'd just ask for a lawyer. I won't trust myself to handle legal processes, and I certainly won't be able tell if the police had forged a document for me to sign.
- 35fbe7d3d5b9 6y ago
  Under American law this is probably the worst possible advice you could give someone. Why? Because if you end up in front of a jury, that police officer is going to testify to that jury that you said "you'd tell them anything when they granted you immunity", a truthful statement, and the jury is going to fill in whatever gaps the prosecutor suggests they fill in. If you are in police custody you ask for nothing from the police. You tell them that you are remaining silent until your lawyer arrives. And then you shut up.
- zentiggr 6y ago
  I'll have to agree with the replies I received - say nothing until you have counsel who can handle things the best way possible.

caturopath 6y ago

> Always talk to the police -- AFTER YOUR LAWYER TELLS YOU TO SAY WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SAY FTFY ;) A cop can't grant you immunity, and most people wouldn't know what it meant if you did have an immunity agreement.

notahacker 6y ago
Also, an up front request for immunity is a massive red flag that says "I'm probably involved in the illegal thing, or some other illegal thing", which is not how you want to introduce yourself to a police officer, especially if you're not a serious suspect at the time. Even if the cop could grant it, why would he? Obviously different if your lawyer says that requesting immunity might work, probably because you're knee deep in someone else's mess and their experience tells them that prosecution will be far more interested in your testimony against them than stuff you might need to admit to.

jancsika 6y ago

In the anecdote the student did ask for immunity, but only after talking to a lawyer first. It was the lawyer's advice to ask for immunity. The bigger lesson was not to ask for immunity, but to refuse to say anything without your lawyer present. (...and then, obviously, to only say things if your lawyer advises you to do so.)

u678u 6y ago

IRS never calls, it was a scammer. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/how-to-know-its-really-the-irs-calling-or-knocking-on-your-door https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/how-to-know-its-really-the-irs-...

jakelazaroff 6y ago

Are you a lawyer? This seems like pretty irresponsible advice to give from an armchair, tbh. IANAL, but if you're arrested, just ask for a lawyer. Don't try to play weird games like asking for immunity. The police have played them way more than you, you don't know the legal system and you will probably lose.

sandworm101 6y ago

>> Always talk to the police -- AFTER GETTING IMMUNITY. No no no, a thousand times no. Immunity is a very nuanced thing that, in the US especially, is beyond the understanding of laypersons. Talk only to and through YOUR lawyer. Don't go anywhere near any talk of "immunity" without several days to discuss the matter with paid legal counsel.

cogman10 6y ago
And, AFAIK, the police themselves CANNOT GRANT IMMUNITY. Only the prosecutor can sign an immunity deal with you. By the time you are talking to a prosecutor, you should have your lawyer involved.
- sandworm101 6y ago
  Not even the prosecutor. The US is a strange dual sovereignty system (state and federal) and so you need multiple prosecutors to agree. State immunity can be respected by the feds, and vis versa, but that is not absolute. Similarly, US prosecutors cannot grant immunity for crimes in other countries such as crimes that cross boarders. US immunity might mean end many travel options.
  - senkora 6y ago
    I’m not sure I would call that “strange”; it’s just the meaning of federalism. Federal means that subnational units have some limited sovereignty, versus unitary where only the toplevel government has sovereignty.
    - sandworm101 6y ago
      Not really. Canada is federalized, but still has a unitary authority for prosecution of crimes. There are very few countries operating parallel authorities, parallel criminal courts. Most countries have a unitary authority structure with the national government being the highest source of law. The US operates a bifurcated structure where States (50+ of them) are often the final authority on criminal matters. That is strange.

tehwebguy 6y ago

Have your attorney ask for immunity and confirm to you that it’s then safe to talk with police (your attorney will just say, “No!!!!” when you ask them)

valuearb 6y ago

Asking for immunity can be used against you in court. “Officer, was there anything strange about the defendants response to finding out his ex-roomate had been murdered?” “Well he immediately asked for immunity to cover his actions in the crime” Never talk to the police, refer them to your lawyer.

watwut 6y ago
I mean, if you ask for immunity out of nowhere, it does make one think about what exactly you want immunity from. One does not have to be manipulative narcissist to figure that one out.

rdtsc 6y ago

How would I know what immunity looks like? Police can and do lie to people to get them to confess to stuff. "We'll go easy on you, we promise", or "this is off the record, you can tell us anything now" etc. So what stops them from saying something like "sure, you got immunity, now let us in".

dragonwriter 6y ago

> The cop who gave that presentation even mentioned getting an IRS call, and said that, they never called back. The IRS would never call you in a situation where that would matter, and in fact they try very hard to make that public since fake IRS enforcement calls are a very common scam. So the cop was either lying to you, or was caught in a scam and accidentally scared them off by showing they weren't going to immediately buckle under, without even realizing it was a scam. Ask for a lawyer, not immunity. And take legal advice from your lawyer, not from cops who, as a class, have neither the knowledge nor the motivation to give good advice.