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It's hard to overstate how tight the british establishment is, media included. It's a small country, and power is concentrated in a vanishingly small number of

It's hard to overstate how tight the british establishment is, media included. It's a small country, and power is concentrated in a vanishingly small number of hands, many of whom are married, or went to school together, or are close friends. This is why when britain passed 100,000 coronavirus deaths, with the worst death rate in the world, nobody resigned, and nobody called for anybody to resign. The BBC is part of this kind of tight, teflon kernel that's at the heart of why the UK is such a dysfunctional country these days.

isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y ago
Very relevant "Yes, Minister"; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9tzoGFszog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9tzoGFszog
subsubzero 6y ago
> It's a small country, and power is concentrated in a vanishingly small number of hands This is very true, I chatted at length with my neighbor who lived his entire life in the UK(up to a few years ago) and was shocked how stratified the society is. Basically there is small group of people(who went to Eton, are lords or knighted, from famous families) that form a clique that runs everything in the country. No matter how much money you make or how successful you are, you can never join that circle. An example was told to me that even David Beckham (famous soccer star) is looked down upon by that segment and does not associate with them and could never join that part of society.
- mattmanser 6y ago
  Err, same in America man. Bushes? Father and son were the president. Kennedys? Brothers were almost presidents, one was a President, the other governor. Clintons? Spouses were almost presidents! If that's not cliquey I don't know what is. Your mate is also massively over-egging how bad it is, there is still an Eton clique (the present/last government being a good example), but we've had a range of recent prime minister's educated normally, outside of the Eton clique. Brown, Blair, even Thatcher just went to a Grammar school (generally a better school you have to pass exams to qualify for, which is semi-meritocratic, though gamed by the rich) Our election system is even worse than America's though so we keep getting conservative governments who win 40-45% of the popular vote but somehow get landslide majorities. Also, what do you mean by "small", it's got 70 million inhabitants. At worst a country with a population of a size of France and Germany might be called "medium".
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    The people who really control things in the US aren't politicians. That is way beneath the scions of multi-generational wealth. Even T* isn't in their club.
    - Nasrudith 6y ago
      If anybody thinks they are really in control of things they are highly arrogant and out of touch at best or an outright delusional at worst. Especially when it comes to the US. Where even the overly rigid minutae obsessed military take pride in being considered unpredictable madmen who don't even pay attention to their own doctrines consistently and are at home in chaos. The people of the US aren't even consistently individualistic and would make herding cats look easy - you can get them to follow you with a tin of tuna. There isn't "the" Man. Why would there be when even positions of petty power are contested for so tightly and dirtily and there are so many striving to rise? Consequences are not a strong deterrent - if they were the world would look very different. Wealthy individuals may have power but nobody has control over the a process of contention across all layers with nominal goals served imperfectly with cargo-culting and skewed priorities. All of this and there is nothing inherently special about the people - human nature and control oppose each other.
  - pasabagi 6y ago
    I said small country in the original post, because while I imagine the US has similar levels of dynastic cliquey stuff going on, it's a colossal nation, so it doesn't hurt so much. In the UK, I think Eton is more a symptom than a cause. The problem is, London is a world-class city that concentrates the entire political and financial establishment. It's also a city with very obvious parallel worlds, where if you move in certain circles, you meet the same people, so while it is a massive city, it sometimes feels quite small. To me, the worst part is not that both Johnson and Cameron went to the same school, the same university, or even the same exclusive dining club - the bad bit is that because any given person with political, social or economic power in the UK is so closely connected with any other, there's a real incentive not to rock the boat. You get an enormous amount of cohesion, because if you go around making enemies, you're ultimately making things awkward for a lot of your friends and acquaintances. On top of that, the fact most people in this world have similar backgrounds makes a lot of them 'on the same page' by default.
- krona 6y ago
  David Beckham is looked down upon by 50% of society (conservative estimate.) The clique of which you speak doesn't seem very exclusive at all.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Lio 6y ago
  I once tried to explain to an American friend what “middle class” meant in the UK vs USA. Long story short; it’s complicated. It’s not entirely related wealth or education but they are big factors. You can’t join the aristocracy via wealth alone. At best you’d probably end up upper middle class if you were educated i.e. Public School followed by Oxford or Cambridge. Maybe your children or grandchildren could if you really have enough money. Becoming an MP would probably help you turn money into a title. “Public” schools, like Eton, are the fee paying alternative to a “private” tutor. They’re not be confused with schools “for the plebs”. You’ll certainly need land if want to join the Gentry. Traditionally, the difference between a Forest and a Wood is that the Forest was once land populated by Commoners (that’s the middle and working class) that someone in the Aristocracy put a fence around and claimed exclusive right to hunt deer on. To this day councils have to pay people to walk the ancient Footpaths and Bridleways every year to stop would be aristocrats claiming the as part of their land. And if you wear brown shoes and a white shirt to the wrong interview in the City you’re not getting the job. As I said, it’s complicated. Complicated and silly.

isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y ago

Very relevant "Yes, Minister"; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9tzoGFszog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9tzoGFszog

subsubzero 6y ago

> It's a small country, and power is concentrated in a vanishingly small number of hands This is very true, I chatted at length with my neighbor who lived his entire life in the UK(up to a few years ago) and was shocked how stratified the society is. Basically there is small group of people(who went to Eton, are lords or knighted, from famous families) that form a clique that runs everything in the country. No matter how much money you make or how successful you are, you can never join that circle. An example was told to me that even David Beckham (famous soccer star) is looked down upon by that segment and does not associate with them and could never join that part of society.

mattmanser 6y ago
Err, same in America man. Bushes? Father and son were the president. Kennedys? Brothers were almost presidents, one was a President, the other governor. Clintons? Spouses were almost presidents! If that's not cliquey I don't know what is. Your mate is also massively over-egging how bad it is, there is still an Eton clique (the present/last government being a good example), but we've had a range of recent prime minister's educated normally, outside of the Eton clique. Brown, Blair, even Thatcher just went to a Grammar school (generally a better school you have to pass exams to qualify for, which is semi-meritocratic, though gamed by the rich) Our election system is even worse than America's though so we keep getting conservative governments who win 40-45% of the popular vote but somehow get landslide majorities. Also, what do you mean by "small", it's got 70 million inhabitants. At worst a country with a population of a size of France and Germany might be called "medium".
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  The people who really control things in the US aren't politicians. That is way beneath the scions of multi-generational wealth. Even T* isn't in their club.
  - Nasrudith 6y ago
    If anybody thinks they are really in control of things they are highly arrogant and out of touch at best or an outright delusional at worst. Especially when it comes to the US. Where even the overly rigid minutae obsessed military take pride in being considered unpredictable madmen who don't even pay attention to their own doctrines consistently and are at home in chaos. The people of the US aren't even consistently individualistic and would make herding cats look easy - you can get them to follow you with a tin of tuna. There isn't "the" Man. Why would there be when even positions of petty power are contested for so tightly and dirtily and there are so many striving to rise? Consequences are not a strong deterrent - if they were the world would look very different. Wealthy individuals may have power but nobody has control over the a process of contention across all layers with nominal goals served imperfectly with cargo-culting and skewed priorities. All of this and there is nothing inherently special about the people - human nature and control oppose each other.
- pasabagi 6y ago
  I said small country in the original post, because while I imagine the US has similar levels of dynastic cliquey stuff going on, it's a colossal nation, so it doesn't hurt so much. In the UK, I think Eton is more a symptom than a cause. The problem is, London is a world-class city that concentrates the entire political and financial establishment. It's also a city with very obvious parallel worlds, where if you move in certain circles, you meet the same people, so while it is a massive city, it sometimes feels quite small. To me, the worst part is not that both Johnson and Cameron went to the same school, the same university, or even the same exclusive dining club - the bad bit is that because any given person with political, social or economic power in the UK is so closely connected with any other, there's a real incentive not to rock the boat. You get an enormous amount of cohesion, because if you go around making enemies, you're ultimately making things awkward for a lot of your friends and acquaintances. On top of that, the fact most people in this world have similar backgrounds makes a lot of them 'on the same page' by default.
krona 6y ago
David Beckham is looked down upon by 50% of society (conservative estimate.) The clique of which you speak doesn't seem very exclusive at all.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Lio 6y ago
I once tried to explain to an American friend what “middle class” meant in the UK vs USA. Long story short; it’s complicated. It’s not entirely related wealth or education but they are big factors. You can’t join the aristocracy via wealth alone. At best you’d probably end up upper middle class if you were educated i.e. Public School followed by Oxford or Cambridge. Maybe your children or grandchildren could if you really have enough money. Becoming an MP would probably help you turn money into a title. “Public” schools, like Eton, are the fee paying alternative to a “private” tutor. They’re not be confused with schools “for the plebs”. You’ll certainly need land if want to join the Gentry. Traditionally, the difference between a Forest and a Wood is that the Forest was once land populated by Commoners (that’s the middle and working class) that someone in the Aristocracy put a fence around and claimed exclusive right to hunt deer on. To this day councils have to pay people to walk the ancient Footpaths and Bridleways every year to stop would be aristocrats claiming the as part of their land. And if you wear brown shoes and a white shirt to the wrong interview in the City you’re not getting the job. As I said, it’s complicated. Complicated and silly.