4 ms·

What is the excuse to have this contract censored? I understand what it's in the interest of security for example, but this...? Also, where are the people who

by eznzt 6y ago

What is the excuse to have this contract censored? I understand what it's in the interest of security for example, but this...? Also, where are the people who laughed about Brexit now?

maxerickson 6y ago
There's a confidentiality clause in the contract (page 26 of the link). Perhaps AstraZeneca asked for it and the member states didn't think it was worth fighting over?
frombody 6y ago
EU is massive and has a lot of negotiating power. Allowing everyone else to see the contract would give other countries stronger leveraging positions against AstraZeneca.
addicted 6y ago
I’m not sure what this has to do with Brexit. The exact same arrangement would have been possible and likely before Brexit as well.
- that_guy_iain 6y ago
  People who were pro-Brexit seem to think this one thing proves they were right. They seem to think other EU members will be angry with how the EU are treating the UK in this matter and will also want to leave. This point seems nuts since the EU is basically fighting for it's members vs a non-member, kind of shows why it's better to be with them than againist them. Considering this hasn't fully played out, their constant bragging on the matter seems foolish. Especially considering the EU clearly has more power. The UK is in an extremely vulnerable position overall and seem to be making their position unsafer by the day. The damage the UK goverment is doing to the EU relations will, I suspect, haunt the UK for decades. I suspect if this carries on for a year or so, the UK will end up in a trade war with their closet and largest trading partner during one of the largest recessions ever. I highly suspect this is going to cost AstraZeneca big.
  - jiofih 6y ago
    Especially considering that AZ is half swedish, and the vaccine was mostly funded by other countries, the UK only responded for 1/10 of it. Oxford uni and the production plant just happen to be on the other side of the fence right now, there is very little to claim it as a British triumph. They need something to hold onto I guess.
    - lhnz 6y ago
      If this tweet is correct [1] then the EU hasn't even paid the down payments yet so the contract isn't even enforceable. [1] https://twitter.com/BarristersHorse/status/1355187738304253954 https://twitter.com/BarristersHorse/status/13551877383042539...
  - outoftheabyss 6y ago
    Perhaps you can point to what in particular the UK has done wrong on this vaccine issue. With the EU introducing export controls against existing (and actually binding) vaccine contracts and now threatening war time-esque controls over production and intellectual property rights of private pharma companies, it is not AstraZeneca that this will cost big, actions like these are much much bigger than uk vs EU
    - that_guy_iain 6y ago
      > Perhaps you can point to what in particular the UK has done wrong on this vaccine issue. This is the thing. The EU is complaining about AstraZeneca and not the UK itself. AstraZeneca is being accused of transferring supplies from EU factories to UK ones and only providing those to the UK. > now threatening war time-esque controls over production and intellectual property rights of private pharma companies, it is not AstraZeneca that this will cost big, I think we think differently on this matter. You think Pharma won't want to deal with the EU if their IP isn't protected. It doesn't matter, another company will enter using their IP and make that money anyways. Their IP being protected is only in the interested of the company, if their IP is not protected they will lose out to generic companies. Doesn't matter where it's developed, someone get it and figure it out and produce it where the IPs are not protected. Drug companies have lots to lose.
- johannes1234321 6y ago
  Correct at the time of writing that document UK was still bound by the single market rules (transition period) but EU27 decided to not fight over vaccines, but coordinate and go for bigger central orders.
scythe 6y ago
>Also, where are the people who laughed about Brexit now? Please don't throw grenades. https://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/grenade.htm https://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/grenade.htm
- cardinalfang 6y ago
  Too late, this affair has already been used as artillery by the pro-brexit press.
  - Bombthecat 6y ago
    Well, it doesnt help that astrazeneca joined the pro brexiters..
afavour 6y ago
> Also, where are the people who laughed about Brexit now? The idea that this one event makes up for the colossal mess of Brexit is... interesting.
Ninn 6y ago
Person who laughed and still laughs at Brexit here. The contract terms of the british contract has not been uncensored as far as I know?
- eznzt 6y ago
  AZ is holding the vaccines for the UK and the EU is moaning about it: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55822602 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55822602
  - skrause 6y ago
    In 13.1. (e) of the contract AstraZeneca warrants that: > it is not under any obligation, contractual or otherwise, to any Person or third party in respect of the Initial Europe Doses or that conflicts with or is inconsistent in any material respect with the terms of this Agreement or that would impede the complete fulfillment of its obligations under this Agreement;
  - jiofih 6y ago
    So you are celebrating the ability of one country to screw over others, ignoring contractual obligations and human decency? Good riddance, stay out of the EU for as long as you like...
    - kcartlidge 6y ago
      Really? You do realise that's exactly what the EU is attempting against the UK? Astra Zeneca has contractual obligations with the UK too, and human decency applies to UK people too. Yet the EU is not only trying to do exactly what you say you dislike, they are also attempting to interfere with totally unrelated contractual obligations (EU-AZ issues leading to "monitoring" of UK-Pfizer contractual deliveries, which has nothing to do with the EU-AZ contract).
  - Ninn 6y ago
    In addition to be in quiet explicit breach of contract and extremely unethical, attitude given the world situation, you still do realise that if EU had done the same and restricted exports of the BioNTech vaccine GB had been even more in the shitter. GB is by far one of the worst performers in the region in handling covid: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/l7meq9/covid_deaths_per_million_inhabitants_january_29th/ https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/l7meq9/covid_deaths... Now try to imagine a world where the development of the Oxford vaccine had failed. And EU based companies had had the success in their place, would you still be having a laugh, given that GB would be on the end of the unfulfilled contract?
DangerousPie 6y ago
Commercially sensitive information? Doesn't seem too unusual to me. And I'm not sure what this has to do with Brexit.
- DC-3 6y ago
  I think they're alluding more generally to the idea that the EU's bureaucratic sluggishness caused its member states to not have a contract in place with AZ until three months after Britain, putting them proverbially to the 'back of the queue'.
  - alibarber 6y ago
    I think this is also where the size and 'buying power' of the EU actually works against it. The UK has bought something like 5 courses of vaccine for each of its population across numerous suppliers, expecting that a few of them will be damp squibs or arrive/be approved too late or not at all. I don't really know - but I don't think the EU is actually in a position to do the same given the size of the combined poplulation and the limited political appeal of wealthier countries to subsidise others for vaccines that won't be needed.
jiofih 6y ago
The EU financed the development of this vaccine to the tune of 300M. The UK contributed 65M, the US 1.2B.
- alibarber 6y ago
  Which per person works out as the least. Not that I'm saying this situation is justified by that, but I don't find it surprising that AZ are not prioritising the EU based purely on this.
  - jiofih 6y ago
    That’s for development - the population doesn’t really matter for the creation of the vaccine?
netsharc 6y ago
Just because someone did something stupid, doesn't mean the previous actions of their opponent were clever...

by eznzt 6y ago

What is the excuse to have this contract censored? I understand what it's in the interest of security for example, but this...? Also, where are the people who laughed about Brexit now?

maxerickson 6y ago

There's a confidentiality clause in the contract (page 26 of the link). Perhaps AstraZeneca asked for it and the member states didn't think it was worth fighting over?

frombody 6y ago

EU is massive and has a lot of negotiating power. Allowing everyone else to see the contract would give other countries stronger leveraging positions against AstraZeneca.

addicted 6y ago

I’m not sure what this has to do with Brexit. The exact same arrangement would have been possible and likely before Brexit as well.

that_guy_iain 6y ago
People who were pro-Brexit seem to think this one thing proves they were right. They seem to think other EU members will be angry with how the EU are treating the UK in this matter and will also want to leave. This point seems nuts since the EU is basically fighting for it's members vs a non-member, kind of shows why it's better to be with them than againist them. Considering this hasn't fully played out, their constant bragging on the matter seems foolish. Especially considering the EU clearly has more power. The UK is in an extremely vulnerable position overall and seem to be making their position unsafer by the day. The damage the UK goverment is doing to the EU relations will, I suspect, haunt the UK for decades. I suspect if this carries on for a year or so, the UK will end up in a trade war with their closet and largest trading partner during one of the largest recessions ever. I highly suspect this is going to cost AstraZeneca big.
- jiofih 6y ago
  Especially considering that AZ is half swedish, and the vaccine was mostly funded by other countries, the UK only responded for 1/10 of it. Oxford uni and the production plant just happen to be on the other side of the fence right now, there is very little to claim it as a British triumph. They need something to hold onto I guess.
  - lhnz 6y ago
    If this tweet is correct [1] then the EU hasn't even paid the down payments yet so the contract isn't even enforceable. [1] https://twitter.com/BarristersHorse/status/1355187738304253954 https://twitter.com/BarristersHorse/status/13551877383042539...
- outoftheabyss 6y ago
  Perhaps you can point to what in particular the UK has done wrong on this vaccine issue. With the EU introducing export controls against existing (and actually binding) vaccine contracts and now threatening war time-esque controls over production and intellectual property rights of private pharma companies, it is not AstraZeneca that this will cost big, actions like these are much much bigger than uk vs EU
  - that_guy_iain 6y ago
    > Perhaps you can point to what in particular the UK has done wrong on this vaccine issue. This is the thing. The EU is complaining about AstraZeneca and not the UK itself. AstraZeneca is being accused of transferring supplies from EU factories to UK ones and only providing those to the UK. > now threatening war time-esque controls over production and intellectual property rights of private pharma companies, it is not AstraZeneca that this will cost big, I think we think differently on this matter. You think Pharma won't want to deal with the EU if their IP isn't protected. It doesn't matter, another company will enter using their IP and make that money anyways. Their IP being protected is only in the interested of the company, if their IP is not protected they will lose out to generic companies. Doesn't matter where it's developed, someone get it and figure it out and produce it where the IPs are not protected. Drug companies have lots to lose.
johannes1234321 6y ago
Correct at the time of writing that document UK was still bound by the single market rules (transition period) but EU27 decided to not fight over vaccines, but coordinate and go for bigger central orders.

scythe 6y ago

>Also, where are the people who laughed about Brexit now? Please don't throw grenades. https://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/grenade.htm https://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/grenade.htm

cardinalfang 6y ago
Too late, this affair has already been used as artillery by the pro-brexit press.
- Bombthecat 6y ago
  Well, it doesnt help that astrazeneca joined the pro brexiters..

afavour 6y ago

> Also, where are the people who laughed about Brexit now? The idea that this one event makes up for the colossal mess of Brexit is... interesting.

Ninn 6y ago

Person who laughed and still laughs at Brexit here. The contract terms of the british contract has not been uncensored as far as I know?

eznzt 6y ago
AZ is holding the vaccines for the UK and the EU is moaning about it: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55822602 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55822602
- skrause 6y ago
  In 13.1. (e) of the contract AstraZeneca warrants that: > it is not under any obligation, contractual or otherwise, to any Person or third party in respect of the Initial Europe Doses or that conflicts with or is inconsistent in any material respect with the terms of this Agreement or that would impede the complete fulfillment of its obligations under this Agreement;
- jiofih 6y ago
  So you are celebrating the ability of one country to screw over others, ignoring contractual obligations and human decency? Good riddance, stay out of the EU for as long as you like...
  - kcartlidge 6y ago
    Really? You do realise that's exactly what the EU is attempting against the UK? Astra Zeneca has contractual obligations with the UK too, and human decency applies to UK people too. Yet the EU is not only trying to do exactly what you say you dislike, they are also attempting to interfere with totally unrelated contractual obligations (EU-AZ issues leading to "monitoring" of UK-Pfizer contractual deliveries, which has nothing to do with the EU-AZ contract).
- Ninn 6y ago
  In addition to be in quiet explicit breach of contract and extremely unethical, attitude given the world situation, you still do realise that if EU had done the same and restricted exports of the BioNTech vaccine GB had been even more in the shitter. GB is by far one of the worst performers in the region in handling covid: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/l7meq9/covid_deaths_per_million_inhabitants_january_29th/ https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/l7meq9/covid_deaths... Now try to imagine a world where the development of the Oxford vaccine had failed. And EU based companies had had the success in their place, would you still be having a laugh, given that GB would be on the end of the unfulfilled contract?

DangerousPie 6y ago

Commercially sensitive information? Doesn't seem too unusual to me. And I'm not sure what this has to do with Brexit.

DC-3 6y ago
I think they're alluding more generally to the idea that the EU's bureaucratic sluggishness caused its member states to not have a contract in place with AZ until three months after Britain, putting them proverbially to the 'back of the queue'.
- alibarber 6y ago
  I think this is also where the size and 'buying power' of the EU actually works against it. The UK has bought something like 5 courses of vaccine for each of its population across numerous suppliers, expecting that a few of them will be damp squibs or arrive/be approved too late or not at all. I don't really know - but I don't think the EU is actually in a position to do the same given the size of the combined poplulation and the limited political appeal of wealthier countries to subsidise others for vaccines that won't be needed.

jiofih 6y ago

The EU financed the development of this vaccine to the tune of 300M. The UK contributed 65M, the US 1.2B.

alibarber 6y ago
Which per person works out as the least. Not that I'm saying this situation is justified by that, but I don't find it surprising that AZ are not prioritising the EU based purely on this.
- jiofih 6y ago
  That’s for development - the population doesn’t really matter for the creation of the vaccine?

netsharc 6y ago

Just because someone did something stupid, doesn't mean the previous actions of their opponent were clever...