4 ms·

Strong disagree. Good ideas are rare, and nobody knows how to come up with them reliably. (For example, in the world of cinema, see how the writers of the subse

by tines 6y ago

Strong disagree. Good ideas are rare, and nobody knows how to come up with them reliably. (For example, in the world of cinema, see how the writers of the subsequent Pirates of the Caribbean movies, and the people around them, had no idea what made the first one good.) An idea without execution is still valuable, but execution without an idea is worthless.

TeaDrunk 6y ago
> An idea without execution is still valuable, but execution without an idea is worthless. FIFA? (Not trying to be snarky, but genuinely motioning to something I believe to be execution without novel ideas.)
- tialaramex 6y ago
  The international association football/ soccer governing body? Or the video game series? FIFA the organisation was much more corrupt than you'd expect, and so I suppose to the extent this organisation was novel (there are a lot of international sports bodies) the novelty was apparently undesirable. But I think the FIFA video game may have been the first to introduce several awful ideas, which were nevertheless novel. Blind buy "lootboxes" were introduced to the FIFA games fairly early because fans were familiar with the idea of buying a pack of "trading cards" in the real world which are also blind buy.
- tines 6y ago
  I know what you mean. But I don't think that disproves my point, it just shows that people like garbage. And that's ok. I love garbage sometimes, there is absolutely zero harm in garbage. But that doesn't make it anything other than garbage. The harm comes when you think the garbage is gold.
JKCalhoun 6y ago
Agree, life and the internet have taught me that "nothing new under the sun" is true. Novelty and ideas are golden. There would be no good execution of said idea if the idea wasn't put first first (of course).
irrational 6y ago
> the people around them, had no idea what made the first one good That's easy - Johnny Depp in black eyeliner.
a1369209993 6y ago
> > Ideas are cheap, execution is everything > Good ideas are rare, and nobody knows how to come up with them reliably. The operative word there is "good ideas are rare". The claim is that you don't know whether a idea is good until it's been executed on (which seems plausible, and at any rate you haven't contradicted that), and that good ideas are rare, so most ideas are crap (which you yourself just asserted). Thus, the expected value of a given idea (absent execution) is very low, aka cheap.
- tines 6y ago
  I mean, I think it's obvious that the OP meant "good ideas" when he said "ideas are cheap." His entire point was "novelty" and "many really clever ideas" are not worth anything without the execution to go along with them. > The claim is that you don't know whether a idea is good until it's been executed on I don't think his claim was just epistemological the way you're interpreting it, and if it was, then I will withdraw since it's not the idea I meant to engage with.
  - a1369209993 6y ago
    > I mean, I think it's obvious that the OP meant "good ideas" Eh, I consider "Ideas that are known for a fact to be good (ie useful) are useful (ie valuable, provided they aren't already devalued by ubiquity[0])." to be sufficiently tautological that I would not expect someone (intellegent and good-faith enough to be worth engaging with) to be arguing against it. Although note the distinction between merely good ideas, versus ideas that you actually know are good, since the work of turning the former into the latter was what I assumed they were attributing to execution. > I don't think his claim was just epistemological the way you're interpreting it, and if it was, then I will withdraw since it's not the idea I meant to engage with. Fair enough; I'm not sure we even have a disagreement over facts so much as over how we're categorizing things and the terminology therefor. 0: Eg, "writing" or "general-purpose computers" are almost incalculably valuable ideas, but they're not worth anything in a supply-and-demand sense because everyone in the world already knows about them.

by tines 6y ago

TeaDrunk 6y ago

> An idea without execution is still valuable, but execution without an idea is worthless. FIFA? (Not trying to be snarky, but genuinely motioning to something I believe to be execution without novel ideas.)

tialaramex 6y ago
The international association football/ soccer governing body? Or the video game series? FIFA the organisation was much more corrupt than you'd expect, and so I suppose to the extent this organisation was novel (there are a lot of international sports bodies) the novelty was apparently undesirable. But I think the FIFA video game may have been the first to introduce several awful ideas, which were nevertheless novel. Blind buy "lootboxes" were introduced to the FIFA games fairly early because fans were familiar with the idea of buying a pack of "trading cards" in the real world which are also blind buy.
tines 6y ago
I know what you mean. But I don't think that disproves my point, it just shows that people like garbage. And that's ok. I love garbage sometimes, there is absolutely zero harm in garbage. But that doesn't make it anything other than garbage. The harm comes when you think the garbage is gold.

JKCalhoun 6y ago

Agree, life and the internet have taught me that "nothing new under the sun" is true. Novelty and ideas are golden. There would be no good execution of said idea if the idea wasn't put first first (of course).

irrational 6y ago

> the people around them, had no idea what made the first one good That's easy - Johnny Depp in black eyeliner.

a1369209993 6y ago

> > Ideas are cheap, execution is everything > Good ideas are rare, and nobody knows how to come up with them reliably. The operative word there is "good ideas are rare". The claim is that you don't know whether a idea is good until it's been executed on (which seems plausible, and at any rate you haven't contradicted that), and that good ideas are rare, so most ideas are crap (which you yourself just asserted). Thus, the expected value of a given idea (absent execution) is very low, aka cheap.

tines 6y ago
I mean, I think it's obvious that the OP meant "good ideas" when he said "ideas are cheap." His entire point was "novelty" and "many really clever ideas" are not worth anything without the execution to go along with them. > The claim is that you don't know whether a idea is good until it's been executed on I don't think his claim was just epistemological the way you're interpreting it, and if it was, then I will withdraw since it's not the idea I meant to engage with.
- a1369209993 6y ago
  > I mean, I think it's obvious that the OP meant "good ideas" Eh, I consider "Ideas that are known for a fact to be good (ie useful) are useful (ie valuable, provided they aren't already devalued by ubiquity[0])." to be sufficiently tautological that I would not expect someone (intellegent and good-faith enough to be worth engaging with) to be arguing against it. Although note the distinction between merely good ideas, versus ideas that you actually know are good, since the work of turning the former into the latter was what I assumed they were attributing to execution. > I don't think his claim was just epistemological the way you're interpreting it, and if it was, then I will withdraw since it's not the idea I meant to engage with. Fair enough; I'm not sure we even have a disagreement over facts so much as over how we're categorizing things and the terminology therefor. 0: Eg, "writing" or "general-purpose computers" are almost incalculably valuable ideas, but they're not worth anything in a supply-and-demand sense because everyone in the world already knows about them.