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linkdd is saying that complexity comes from emergent behavior based on simple foundational building blocks, like a programming language

tehbeard 6y ago
That's a very charitable reading of what they wrote. craft/place buildings implies a very discrete action and does not encapsulate the sum of the parts, the interaction between all these systems.
- indeedmug 6y ago
  Even if what linkdd say on face value, every single piece of software is "emergent" from programming and from his logic is very simple. Clearly this is not true. Simple building blocks don't mean simple programs. Heavily interacting components leads to complexity and significant bugs. That's just software engineering 101.
- fastball 6y ago
  A parent comment mentioned Redstone, of Minecraft fame. Redstone, as a thing that the developer created, is not on its own very complex. But the things that user can make with Redstone are insanely complex. That is not true for most gameplay in games, but it is true for Redstone in MC and Factorio in general. That's not to belittle those things, they're both great. But if you compare the dev time required to make Redstone in MC vs the dev time to make other stuff, other stuff frequently wins. Hell, I bet just making skeletons took more time than making Redstone. But obviously that doesn't mean Skeletons allow for more interesting gaming than Redstone. "Simple gameplay" does not mean that the experience of playing the game is simple. Chess has very simple gameplay (basically just: learning how 6 different piece types move, pieces capture each other, and protect the King) but the emergent complexity from those simple rules is truly impressive. Compare this to say Monopoly, which has a lot more rules than chess, but is mind-numbingly not complex in terms of strategy and the overall play experience. That is what linkdd is trying to say.

tehbeard 6y ago

That's a very charitable reading of what they wrote. craft/place buildings implies a very discrete action and does not encapsulate the sum of the parts, the interaction between all these systems.

indeedmug 6y ago
Even if what linkdd say on face value, every single piece of software is "emergent" from programming and from his logic is very simple. Clearly this is not true. Simple building blocks don't mean simple programs. Heavily interacting components leads to complexity and significant bugs. That's just software engineering 101.
fastball 6y ago
A parent comment mentioned Redstone, of Minecraft fame. Redstone, as a thing that the developer created, is not on its own very complex. But the things that user can make with Redstone are insanely complex. That is not true for most gameplay in games, but it is true for Redstone in MC and Factorio in general. That's not to belittle those things, they're both great. But if you compare the dev time required to make Redstone in MC vs the dev time to make other stuff, other stuff frequently wins. Hell, I bet just making skeletons took more time than making Redstone. But obviously that doesn't mean Skeletons allow for more interesting gaming than Redstone. "Simple gameplay" does not mean that the experience of playing the game is simple. Chess has very simple gameplay (basically just: learning how 6 different piece types move, pieces capture each other, and protect the King) but the emergent complexity from those simple rules is truly impressive. Compare this to say Monopoly, which has a lot more rules than chess, but is mind-numbingly not complex in terms of strategy and the overall play experience. That is what linkdd is trying to say.