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This feels to me like Apple creating a convenient Orwellian enemy. They're not even competitors, because Apple doesn't have a social network, Facebook doesn't s

by _qulr 6y ago

This feels to me like Apple creating a convenient Orwellian enemy. They're not even competitors, because Apple doesn't have a social network, Facebook doesn't sell computers, and indeed Facebook is currently among the grossing apps in the iOS App Store, 30% of which Apple gets. If Facebook was as terrible as Apple makes them out to be, why would Apple allow Facebook in their App Store and take 30% of the generated revenue? It's hypocritical for Apple to criticize Facebook. If anything, the App Store made Facebook more popular than ever, so it's a "monster" that Apple helped create. EDIT: My perspective is that the App Store and iOS lockdown have been harmful to user privacy, and Facebook is merely a convenient enemy to distract from the harmfulness of Apple's own current business model. On the Mac, I can install Little Snitch and prevent software from phoning home to both facebook.com and apple.com. I can't do any of this on iPhone. (And indeed, Little Snitch is not even compatible with the restrictive Mac App Store rules, so it has to be distributed outside the MAS.) The iPhone platform is designed such that software like Facebook thrives, and software like Little Snitch cannot exist.

user-the-name 6y ago
Apple gets no revenue from Facebook, their app is free and has no in-app purchases.
- _qulr 6y ago
  Please check the App Store before you make obviously false and easily refutable assertions.
  - user-the-name 6y ago
    Hmm, looks like a recent feature. I doubt it is particularly large.
    - _qulr 6y ago
      > I doubt it is particularly large. Facebook is currently 43 in the list of the top grossing apps. I'm still running iTunes 12.6 which shows these lists.
      - user-the-name 6y ago
        Ok, so Facebook is the 43 top grossing app. What exactly do you want them to do? Single them out and not allow them to use IAPs?
  - quesera 6y ago
    I wish you had posted the constructive form of reply, e.g.: Recently, Facebook added in-app purchases for things like X. Because here I am still wondering what the hell X could possibly be.
avianlyric 6y ago
> If Facebook was as terrible as Apple makes them out to be, Where is Apple doing this? Far as I can tell Apple are just saying that people don’t understand how their data is being used, and that companies should educate, and get informed consent. It’s Facebook that’s demonising Apple here, not the other way around. Other than in direct responses to attacks by Facebook, where has Apple even used Facebook’s name?
- _qulr 6y ago
  > Other than in direct responses to attacks by Facebook, where has Apple even used Facebook’s name? They don't have to use the name. Everyone including the news media knew that Apple was implying Facebook.
  - avianlyric 6y ago
    I’m not sure that’s true. All of Apple announcements seem to more broadly target the large data brokers you’ve never heard of. Facebook seems to be making themselves look like the target for browny points, that plus their recent data fuckups means they’re probably the first name that pops into people heads when you say “abuse of peoples data”. But that’s just an inditement of Facebooks dodgy data practices, not evidence that Apple implying or targeting them. Quite frankly I don’t think Apple gives a shit about Facebook. Why the hell would they? There’s no profit in targeting them specifically.
    - _qulr 6y ago
      > they’re probably the first name that pops into people heads when you say “abuse of peoples data” > I don’t think Apple gives a shit about Facebook. Why the hell would they? There’s no profit in targeting them specifically. I think you answered your own question. :-) Facebook is a convenient punching bag. Which is the point of an Orwellian enemy, who isn't actually an enemy except for the need of some enemy.
      - avianlyric 6y ago
Zelphyr 6y ago
Because Facebook users are Apple customers. If Apple kicked Facebook off the platform you know as well as I do that the number of people screaming at Apple for doing so would be overwhelming. And that's before the media got involved. It's the lesser of two evils for Apple. So instead of pissing off their customers, they have chosen to piss off Facebook.
- _qulr 6y ago
  Apple kicked Parler off the App Store, and a lot of people are screaming at Apple, including powerful politicians. In any case, part of my previous comment was noting how the decade+ of the App Store has actually contributed to and encouraged the advertised-financed "attention economy". Apple wasn't just an innocent bystander that whole time; they designed the platform and the App Store.
pwinnski 6y ago
This week, Mark Zuckerberg declared that Apple is one of their biggest competitors[0]. Apple may not see Facebook as a competitor, but that feeling is not mutual. Given Apple's focus on privacy combined with their huge footprint in the US, Facebook may see them as an existential threat, and be using the word "competitor" to represent that. 0. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/facebook-ceo-zuckerberg-says-it.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/facebook-ceo-zuckerberg-says...
- _qulr 6y ago
  > Given Apple's focus on privacy combined with their huge footprint in the US, Facebook may see them as an existential threat, and be using the word "competitor" to represent that. I agree that Apple is an existential threat to Facebook, given that Apple has absolute control over software distribution on iPhone. In that sense they're competitors, but not in the standard sense of having competing products.
ogre_codes 6y ago
> This feels to me like Apple creating a convenient Orwellian enemy. Apple isn't "creating" an enemy here. They aren't running full page advertising against Facebook. Apple is making it so users have to give permission before companies can utilize an API. Just giving that one power to end users has apparently scared the hell out of Facebook. > ...why would Apple allow Facebook in their App Store and take 30% of the generated revenue? Apple doesn't get 30% of Facebook's generated revenue. It gets 30% of sales and in-app purchases. Facebook doesn't use either as far as I know. > If anything, the App Store made Facebook more popular than ever, so it's a "monster" that Apple helped create. If they had perfect foreknowledge, Apple would likely have done this from the start. Steve Jobs made it very clear at the time that Apple itself should ask permission before collecting information every time. If they'd foreseen influential companies like Facebook creating APIs which were widely spread through the App Store, they'd have likely closed this door a long time ago.
- _qulr 6y ago
  > It gets 30% of sales and in-app purchases. Facebook doesn't use either as far as I know. Facebook does have IAP, as already discussed in other sub-comments. > If they'd foreseen influential companies like Facebook creating APIs which were widely spread through the App Store, they'd have likely closed this door a long time ago. It's been more than 12 years since the App Store opened. Apple didn't need perfect foreknowledge to take action long before now.

by _qulr 6y ago

user-the-name 6y ago

Apple gets no revenue from Facebook, their app is free and has no in-app purchases.

_qulr 6y ago
Please check the App Store before you make obviously false and easily refutable assertions.
- user-the-name 6y ago
  Hmm, looks like a recent feature. I doubt it is particularly large.
  - _qulr 6y ago
    > I doubt it is particularly large. Facebook is currently 43 in the list of the top grossing apps. I'm still running iTunes 12.6 which shows these lists.
    - user-the-name 6y ago
      Ok, so Facebook is the 43 top grossing app. What exactly do you want them to do? Single them out and not allow them to use IAPs?
- quesera 6y ago
  I wish you had posted the constructive form of reply, e.g.: Recently, Facebook added in-app purchases for things like X. Because here I am still wondering what the hell X could possibly be.

avianlyric 6y ago

> If Facebook was as terrible as Apple makes them out to be, Where is Apple doing this? Far as I can tell Apple are just saying that people don’t understand how their data is being used, and that companies should educate, and get informed consent. It’s Facebook that’s demonising Apple here, not the other way around. Other than in direct responses to attacks by Facebook, where has Apple even used Facebook’s name?

_qulr 6y ago
> Other than in direct responses to attacks by Facebook, where has Apple even used Facebook’s name? They don't have to use the name. Everyone including the news media knew that Apple was implying Facebook.
- avianlyric 6y ago
  I’m not sure that’s true. All of Apple announcements seem to more broadly target the large data brokers you’ve never heard of. Facebook seems to be making themselves look like the target for browny points, that plus their recent data fuckups means they’re probably the first name that pops into people heads when you say “abuse of peoples data”. But that’s just an inditement of Facebooks dodgy data practices, not evidence that Apple implying or targeting them. Quite frankly I don’t think Apple gives a shit about Facebook. Why the hell would they? There’s no profit in targeting them specifically.
  - _qulr 6y ago
    > they’re probably the first name that pops into people heads when you say “abuse of peoples data” > I don’t think Apple gives a shit about Facebook. Why the hell would they? There’s no profit in targeting them specifically. I think you answered your own question. :-) Facebook is a convenient punching bag. Which is the point of an Orwellian enemy, who isn't actually an enemy except for the need of some enemy.
    - avianlyric 6y ago

Zelphyr 6y ago

Because Facebook users are Apple customers. If Apple kicked Facebook off the platform you know as well as I do that the number of people screaming at Apple for doing so would be overwhelming. And that's before the media got involved. It's the lesser of two evils for Apple. So instead of pissing off their customers, they have chosen to piss off Facebook.

_qulr 6y ago
Apple kicked Parler off the App Store, and a lot of people are screaming at Apple, including powerful politicians. In any case, part of my previous comment was noting how the decade+ of the App Store has actually contributed to and encouraged the advertised-financed "attention economy". Apple wasn't just an innocent bystander that whole time; they designed the platform and the App Store.

pwinnski 6y ago

This week, Mark Zuckerberg declared that Apple is one of their biggest competitors[0]. Apple may not see Facebook as a competitor, but that feeling is not mutual. Given Apple's focus on privacy combined with their huge footprint in the US, Facebook may see them as an existential threat, and be using the word "competitor" to represent that. 0. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/facebook-ceo-zuckerberg-says-it.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/facebook-ceo-zuckerberg-says...

_qulr 6y ago
> Given Apple's focus on privacy combined with their huge footprint in the US, Facebook may see them as an existential threat, and be using the word "competitor" to represent that. I agree that Apple is an existential threat to Facebook, given that Apple has absolute control over software distribution on iPhone. In that sense they're competitors, but not in the standard sense of having competing products.

ogre_codes 6y ago

> This feels to me like Apple creating a convenient Orwellian enemy. Apple isn't "creating" an enemy here. They aren't running full page advertising against Facebook. Apple is making it so users have to give permission before companies can utilize an API. Just giving that one power to end users has apparently scared the hell out of Facebook. > ...why would Apple allow Facebook in their App Store and take 30% of the generated revenue? Apple doesn't get 30% of Facebook's generated revenue. It gets 30% of sales and in-app purchases. Facebook doesn't use either as far as I know. > If anything, the App Store made Facebook more popular than ever, so it's a "monster" that Apple helped create. If they had perfect foreknowledge, Apple would likely have done this from the start. Steve Jobs made it very clear at the time that Apple itself should ask permission before collecting information every time. If they'd foreseen influential companies like Facebook creating APIs which were widely spread through the App Store, they'd have likely closed this door a long time ago.

_qulr 6y ago
> It gets 30% of sales and in-app purchases. Facebook doesn't use either as far as I know. Facebook does have IAP, as already discussed in other sub-comments. > If they'd foreseen influential companies like Facebook creating APIs which were widely spread through the App Store, they'd have likely closed this door a long time ago. It's been more than 12 years since the App Store opened. Apple didn't need perfect foreknowledge to take action long before now.