5 ms·

Ever think that they just like the stock?

jeffbee 6y ago
That's the thing: there is NO QUESTION as to the motives of the r/wsb traders. They are overtly conspiring to raise the price of shares in order to force specific parties to buy it. That's manipulation!
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  It's manipulation, but is it illegal manipulation? Remember, it's perfectly legal for a hedge fund to open a short position, and then release a big expose of the company that tanks its stock price. For a prominent recent example: https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola/ https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola/
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- TheCapn 6y ago
  >force specific parties to buy it I think they forced themselves to buy it by taking the short position they did.
- RHSeeger 6y ago
  Is it illegal to corner the market on a product because you know someone else is going to need to buy it, so you can charge them a lot because they must buy from you? It seems like what is being done is pretty much this; just for a large definition of "you".
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    Yes, it is broadly illegal to corner or attempt to corner any market, and the law directs the CFTC to step in and and void commodities contracts or take whatever other actions it deems appropriate when it finds that a market has been destabilized. See 7 USC 12a(9).
    - RHSeeger 6y ago
      Interesting. Thanks for the pointer to the details, too.
- Dirlewanger 6y ago
  May be for some of them. People invest for all sorts of reasons besides the "fundamentals", you know. Tell me: what do you think Melvin's intentions were for shorting a dying company's stock for several billion?
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    To raise cash? Shorting a company in terminal decline, but that will never die and will live on the pink sheets forever, is a great way to take a gain without ever having to pay the taxes.
    - Dirlewanger 6y ago
      And you just described a form of market manipulation. Except that we can't know Melvin's true motives because for some weird reason, hedge funds don't have to make their methodologies public. So why are you getting mad that retail investors are engaging in the same practices that hedge funds can do with impunity?
      - jeffbee 6y ago
        No? Your folk definition of "manipulation" isn't furthering this discussion.
amirhirsch 6y ago
It kinda feels like that to me. The nostalgia value of owning 1 share of GameStop is pretty important considering the joy that going to that store brought to me as a child. I can totally understand if 20 million people also want in, especially given the idea that we're fighting against a short position to cause a squeeze. It's like a dumb feel-good movie where we had a bake-sale and everyone buys a cookie for an unreasonable price to help our favorite local grocery store avoid bankruptcy by the evil liquidators who want to turn it into a Walmart.

That's the thing: there is NO QUESTION as to the motives of the r/wsb traders. They are overtly conspiring to raise the price of shares in order to force specific parties to buy it. That's manipulation!

ceejayoz 6y ago
It's manipulation, but is it illegal manipulation? Remember, it's perfectly legal for a hedge fund to open a short position, and then release a big expose of the company that tanks its stock price. For a prominent recent example: https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola/ https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola/
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
TheCapn 6y ago
>force specific parties to buy it I think they forced themselves to buy it by taking the short position they did.
RHSeeger 6y ago
Is it illegal to corner the market on a product because you know someone else is going to need to buy it, so you can charge them a lot because they must buy from you? It seems like what is being done is pretty much this; just for a large definition of "you".
- jeffbee 6y ago
  Yes, it is broadly illegal to corner or attempt to corner any market, and the law directs the CFTC to step in and and void commodities contracts or take whatever other actions it deems appropriate when it finds that a market has been destabilized. See 7 USC 12a(9).
  - RHSeeger 6y ago
    Interesting. Thanks for the pointer to the details, too.
Dirlewanger 6y ago
May be for some of them. People invest for all sorts of reasons besides the "fundamentals", you know. Tell me: what do you think Melvin's intentions were for shorting a dying company's stock for several billion?
- jeffbee 6y ago
  To raise cash? Shorting a company in terminal decline, but that will never die and will live on the pink sheets forever, is a great way to take a gain without ever having to pay the taxes.
  - Dirlewanger 6y ago
    And you just described a form of market manipulation. Except that we can't know Melvin's true motives because for some weird reason, hedge funds don't have to make their methodologies public. So why are you getting mad that retail investors are engaging in the same practices that hedge funds can do with impunity?
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      No? Your folk definition of "manipulation" isn't furthering this discussion.

amirhirsch 6y ago

It kinda feels like that to me. The nostalgia value of owning 1 share of GameStop is pretty important considering the joy that going to that store brought to me as a child. I can totally understand if 20 million people also want in, especially given the idea that we're fighting against a short position to cause a squeeze. It's like a dumb feel-good movie where we had a bake-sale and everyone buys a cookie for an unreasonable price to help our favorite local grocery store avoid bankruptcy by the evil liquidators who want to turn it into a Walmart.