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> we (civilians) I just want to remind everyone that police are civilians too. I also sometimes forget

by rendall 6y ago

qntty 6y ago
civilian noun 2a : one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force
- thatguy0900 6y ago
  Why would firefighters not be civilians?
  - qntty 6y ago
    I don't know exactly, but it sounds like the word is context-dependent. During war, it means people who aren't in the military, but during peacetime it means people who aren't expected to risk their lives in more ordinary ways. [If the jobs of firefighters seems irreproachable or lacking authority compared to military or police, then maybe it would help to remember that firefighters turned their hoses on civil rights protesters in the 60s. No doubt there are many similar examples of firefighter's behavior being clearly outside of the what is thought to be typical of civilians.]
cannabis_sam 6y ago
Some dictionaries seem to disagree with you: – a person who is not a member of the police or the armed forces https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/civilian https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/civil... – one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian – a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/civilian https://www.dictionary.com/browse/civilian I’m a little curious, why should they be considered civilians?
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  > why should they be considered civilians? Because they are. Robert Peel was insistent on exactly that point when he set up the police force in the UK. See, for instance, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles Edit: corrected URL
  - cannabis_sam 6y ago
    No, they are not. They are literally instruments of the government’s monopoly on violence. I have no idea why you reference a dead politician’s antiquated analysis of the role of the police.. shit has happened since 1850, and I personally believe catholics should not be barred from parliament. Also, not everyone lives in the UK. Edit: as an example: what’s “sir” Robert Peel’s view on facial recognition...?
    - kwhitefoot 6y ago
      > Also, not everyone lives in the UK. Also quite a substantial number of people don't live in the US. So as I said in another comment, perhaps we should all annotate our comments with information regarding the jurisdiction in which the information applies.
    - Maha-pudma 6y ago
      Not everyone lives in America which is what most of this thread seems to be about. No idea why you're mentioning Catholics in the UK Parliament. Unless its an attempt at discrediting the previous commenters statement. We certainly refer to them as the civi-police in the military. Though we don't have the gun issues the US has, but that seems based on an antiquated amendment even older the Peels analysis.
      - cannabis_sam 6y ago
        > No idea why you're mentioning Catholics in the UK Parliament. Look up Robert Peel
ashtonkem 6y ago
As armed representatives of the state, I would argue that they are not. They’re not military, but they’re definitely not civilians.
8note 6y ago
Ah, so if they shoot me at all, it's assault with a deadly weapon, just like any other civilian
Erlich_Bachman 6y ago
Are you confusing it with the word "citizen"?

> we (civilians) I just want to remind everyone that police are civilians too. I also sometimes forget

qntty 6y ago

civilian noun 2a : one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force

thatguy0900 6y ago
Why would firefighters not be civilians?
- qntty 6y ago
  I don't know exactly, but it sounds like the word is context-dependent. During war, it means people who aren't in the military, but during peacetime it means people who aren't expected to risk their lives in more ordinary ways. [If the jobs of firefighters seems irreproachable or lacking authority compared to military or police, then maybe it would help to remember that firefighters turned their hoses on civil rights protesters in the 60s. No doubt there are many similar examples of firefighter's behavior being clearly outside of the what is thought to be typical of civilians.]

cannabis_sam 6y ago

Some dictionaries seem to disagree with you: – a person who is not a member of the police or the armed forces https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/civilian https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/civil... – one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian – a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/civilian https://www.dictionary.com/browse/civilian I’m a little curious, why should they be considered civilians?

kwhitefoot 6y ago
> why should they be considered civilians? Because they are. Robert Peel was insistent on exactly that point when he set up the police force in the UK. See, for instance, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles Edit: corrected URL
- cannabis_sam 6y ago
  No, they are not. They are literally instruments of the government’s monopoly on violence. I have no idea why you reference a dead politician’s antiquated analysis of the role of the police.. shit has happened since 1850, and I personally believe catholics should not be barred from parliament. Also, not everyone lives in the UK. Edit: as an example: what’s “sir” Robert Peel’s view on facial recognition...?
  - kwhitefoot 6y ago
    > Also, not everyone lives in the UK. Also quite a substantial number of people don't live in the US. So as I said in another comment, perhaps we should all annotate our comments with information regarding the jurisdiction in which the information applies.
  - Maha-pudma 6y ago
    Not everyone lives in America which is what most of this thread seems to be about. No idea why you're mentioning Catholics in the UK Parliament. Unless its an attempt at discrediting the previous commenters statement. We certainly refer to them as the civi-police in the military. Though we don't have the gun issues the US has, but that seems based on an antiquated amendment even older the Peels analysis.
    - cannabis_sam 6y ago
      > No idea why you're mentioning Catholics in the UK Parliament. Look up Robert Peel

ashtonkem 6y ago

As armed representatives of the state, I would argue that they are not. They’re not military, but they’re definitely not civilians.

8note 6y ago

Ah, so if they shoot me at all, it's assault with a deadly weapon, just like any other civilian

Erlich_Bachman 6y ago

Are you confusing it with the word "citizen"?