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Interesting idea. But I don't think many people look at old threads.

by pg 15y ago

clarkevans 15y ago
I tend to read threads several days after they are posted, mostly because I can scan all the comments at once. I think having the votes would help me scan much more efficiently. Identifying infrequent posters might also be helpful since they often post new/different information that may not be highly-ranked.
tokenadult 15y ago
I look at old threads fairly often, and people who search on certain keywords on Google or Bing are sure to do so.
srean 15y ago
Dont know about others, but I do and I learn a lot from them. One more reason why I absolutely loved the duplicate story detection script.
tptacek 15y ago
Intuitively, you could delay comments for just a day or two and get 80% of the benefit we get now. Stupid threads are sprints, not marathons.
- jeromec 15y ago
  I don't know, this worries me. I think a reason discussion quality has improved is the only comments posted now are from those who really want to add to the discussion. Knowing people might later credit you with your score gets dangerously close to the original problem of people intentionally scoring points off one another.
beagle3 15y ago
I do. I bookmark interesting threads to look at again in a month time or so, when all comment dust has settled, and I have a better perspective. I noticed that downvote buttons disappear after a while (24 hours after posting is my non-scientific impression), but upvote buttons never do; If e.g. 95% of the votes happen within 48 hours of posting, it might make sense to drop the upvote buttons as well at that point, and display the points -- if you believe they are useful. Personally, I'm happy with the comments just sorted by points and don't care for the actual number -- although, while you're at it, I would be happy if there was a controversy indicator of some sort -- when I read threads, I'm often interested in the consensus and the controversial. I can find the consensus in the first few posts; I can't tell where the controversy is.
- T-R 15y ago
  I second the idea of a controversy indicator - it's a significant piece of information that gets lost whenever the bandwagon jumps on, even with scores displayed. I mostly see this in the form of low quality or offensive comments that get lots of up-votes from people who agree with the poster's opinion - usually if a good comment gets down-voted because the majority disagrees, someone says "why the down-votes? its' a legitimate point", and it gets boosted back to positive.
markisisme 15y ago
I really enjoy looking at old threads. I don't always spend a great deal of time on HN 'in the moment', but I like to do searches for old threads when I come across a topic (from anywhere) I find interesting. I want to see what the HN discourse was like on the subject. Having the comment scores show up after some fixed amount of time (1 month?), would add a little to that experience.
pasbesoin 15y ago
I wish they were a bit easier to unearth (I lost some saved threads, a while back). I think they would, could... ok, might have more value, if there was some way to get them more easily in front of the right eyeballs at the right time. How many "seeking advice..." threads appear that remind us old timers of one or several prior discussions that would still be highly relevant. If we have the time and inclination, we google or otherwise search up a link or three. When someone else does so, I know that I for one am inclined to follow those links.
eneveu 15y ago
I do. I follow HN using a RSS feed ( http://feeds.feedburner.com/newsyc100 http://feeds.feedburner.com/newsyc100 , from http://talkfast.org/2010/07/23/a-cure-for-hacker-news-overload http://talkfast.org/2010/07/23/a-cure-for-hacker-news-overlo... ), and I often read a submission and its comments a few days after the discussion has died down* . Seeing comment scores is useful, because it lets me easily see the "best" comments. I don't see the problem with showing comment scores once the discussion has died down. It's also useful to be able to see comment scores when browsing old threads, looking for specific information (using searchyc, bookmarked threads...). *: of course, this approach is good for simple HN "consumption", but participating is harder, since few people reads the comment I make on week-old threads...
- jeromec 15y ago
  Seeing comment scores is useful, because it lets me easily see the "best" comments. This is actually why I think comment scores should remain off indefinitely. People (including myself) have become too reliant on scoring as a measurement for the merit of comments. That may have worked when the site first started and had a small close-knit group of users. However, any site which experiences growth as HN has will inevitably become diluted for both quality of comments, and scoring, I believe. Yet, people will not adjust for that as they continue using scoring to inform them what is "best".
carbocation 15y ago
Far and away, most of my pageviews are on recent threads. However, the oldest threads are the ones that give me the most value: if I happen upon an old thread, it's because it contains advice on a topic that I searched. In other words, when I use HN on a daily basis for the community, I'm browsing the latest articles in high-volume fashion. When I use it as a technical resource, I'm probably only hitting a few old articles. But pageview-for-pageview, the old articles that pop up when I'm doing a search offer me much more value than the ones I browse daily. While you must certainly be right re: the degree to which traffic goes to old vs new articles, I think you might be underestimating the value of old HN threads. The traffic going to old articles probably has different purpose and those pageviews are probably not isomorphic to typical pageviews coming from the front page.
btam 15y ago
I think that whether you decide to show the comment scores immediately or not, you should should show them after some delay. Judging from the replies to your comment, pg, at least some people read old threads. I know I do. I find helpful advice and information from them all the time. I think that people reading these threads should be able to get the benefit of seeing the scores. The arguments against showing comment scores are almost exclusively about the thread quality. If the scores aren't shown until it's too late to comment, there isn't going to be any noticeable impact. If I haven't overlooked anything significant here, you wouldn't be hurting any aspect of the site, but you'd be helping some people get more out of it.
duck 15y ago
I have almost 3000 subscribers to Hacker Newsletter that would argue with that. :)
- colinprince 15y ago
  Do you include the comments when you publish?
dspeyer 15y ago
Why guess? Aren't there server logs?

Interesting idea. But I don't think many people look at old threads.

by pg 15y ago

Interesting idea. But I don't think many people look at old threads.

I tend to read threads several days after they are posted, mostly because I can scan all the comments at once. I think having the votes would help me scan much more efficiently. Identifying infrequent posters might also be helpful since they often post new/different information that may not be highly-ranked.

tokenadult 15y ago

I look at old threads fairly often, and people who search on certain keywords on Google or Bing are sure to do so.

srean 15y ago

Dont know about others, but I do and I learn a lot from them. One more reason why I absolutely loved the duplicate story detection script.

tptacek 15y ago

Intuitively, you could delay comments for just a day or two and get 80% of the benefit we get now. Stupid threads are sprints, not marathons.

jeromec 15y ago
I don't know, this worries me. I think a reason discussion quality has improved is the only comments posted now are from those who really want to add to the discussion. Knowing people might later credit you with your score gets dangerously close to the original problem of people intentionally scoring points off one another.

beagle3 15y ago

I do. I bookmark interesting threads to look at again in a month time or so, when all comment dust has settled, and I have a better perspective. I noticed that downvote buttons disappear after a while (24 hours after posting is my non-scientific impression), but upvote buttons never do; If e.g. 95% of the votes happen within 48 hours of posting, it might make sense to drop the upvote buttons as well at that point, and display the points -- if you believe they are useful. Personally, I'm happy with the comments just sorted by points and don't care for the actual number -- although, while you're at it, I would be happy if there was a controversy indicator of some sort -- when I read threads, I'm often interested in the consensus and the controversial. I can find the consensus in the first few posts; I can't tell where the controversy is.

T-R 15y ago
I second the idea of a controversy indicator - it's a significant piece of information that gets lost whenever the bandwagon jumps on, even with scores displayed. I mostly see this in the form of low quality or offensive comments that get lots of up-votes from people who agree with the poster's opinion - usually if a good comment gets down-voted because the majority disagrees, someone says "why the down-votes? its' a legitimate point", and it gets boosted back to positive.

markisisme 15y ago

I really enjoy looking at old threads. I don't always spend a great deal of time on HN 'in the moment', but I like to do searches for old threads when I come across a topic (from anywhere) I find interesting. I want to see what the HN discourse was like on the subject. Having the comment scores show up after some fixed amount of time (1 month?), would add a little to that experience.

pasbesoin 15y ago

I wish they were a bit easier to unearth (I lost some saved threads, a while back). I think they would, could... ok, might have more value, if there was some way to get them more easily in front of the right eyeballs at the right time. How many "seeking advice..." threads appear that remind us old timers of one or several prior discussions that would still be highly relevant. If we have the time and inclination, we google or otherwise search up a link or three. When someone else does so, I know that I for one am inclined to follow those links.

eneveu 15y ago

I do. I follow HN using a RSS feed ( http://feeds.feedburner.com/newsyc100 http://feeds.feedburner.com/newsyc100 , from http://talkfast.org/2010/07/23/a-cure-for-hacker-news-overload http://talkfast.org/2010/07/23/a-cure-for-hacker-news-overlo... ), and I often read a submission and its comments a few days after the discussion has died down* . Seeing comment scores is useful, because it lets me easily see the "best" comments. I don't see the problem with showing comment scores once the discussion has died down. It's also useful to be able to see comment scores when browsing old threads, looking for specific information (using searchyc, bookmarked threads...). *: of course, this approach is good for simple HN "consumption", but participating is harder, since few people reads the comment I make on week-old threads...

jeromec 15y ago
Seeing comment scores is useful, because it lets me easily see the "best" comments. This is actually why I think comment scores should remain off indefinitely. People (including myself) have become too reliant on scoring as a measurement for the merit of comments. That may have worked when the site first started and had a small close-knit group of users. However, any site which experiences growth as HN has will inevitably become diluted for both quality of comments, and scoring, I believe. Yet, people will not adjust for that as they continue using scoring to inform them what is "best".

carbocation 15y ago

Far and away, most of my pageviews are on recent threads. However, the oldest threads are the ones that give me the most value: if I happen upon an old thread, it's because it contains advice on a topic that I searched. In other words, when I use HN on a daily basis for the community, I'm browsing the latest articles in high-volume fashion. When I use it as a technical resource, I'm probably only hitting a few old articles. But pageview-for-pageview, the old articles that pop up when I'm doing a search offer me much more value than the ones I browse daily. While you must certainly be right re: the degree to which traffic goes to old vs new articles, I think you might be underestimating the value of old HN threads. The traffic going to old articles probably has different purpose and those pageviews are probably not isomorphic to typical pageviews coming from the front page.

btam 15y ago

I think that whether you decide to show the comment scores immediately or not, you should should show them after some delay. Judging from the replies to your comment, pg, at least some people read old threads. I know I do. I find helpful advice and information from them all the time. I think that people reading these threads should be able to get the benefit of seeing the scores. The arguments against showing comment scores are almost exclusively about the thread quality. If the scores aren't shown until it's too late to comment, there isn't going to be any noticeable impact. If I haven't overlooked anything significant here, you wouldn't be hurting any aspect of the site, but you'd be helping some people get more out of it.

duck 15y ago

I have almost 3000 subscribers to Hacker Newsletter that would argue with that. :)

colinprince 15y ago
Do you include the comments when you publish?

dspeyer 15y ago

Why guess? Aren't there server logs?