15 ms·

Google Deleted over 100k Negative Robinhood Reviews

251 points by JacKTrocinskI 6y ago

pgsandstrom 6y ago
It doesn't seem unlikely that they have som anti-brigading software that automatically or semi-automatically deletes certain reviews. Such as when huge amounts of people in a short time instalsl an app just to immediately leave a bad review, and then uninstall.
- IkmoIkmo 6y ago
  > Such as when huge amounts of people in a short time instalsl an app just to immediately leave a bad review, and then uninstall. What would normal behaviour look like in a hyped-up app that ended up disappointing?
  - visarga 6y ago
    good point even after restoring the previous ratings who would trust the score
progre 6y ago
Well the app was brigaded, They usually do that in such instances.
- guerrilla 6y ago
  Was it brigaded or were users just justifiably upset by them removing capabilities without warning?
nindalf 6y ago
A link to a screenshot of a tweet. I’m as mad as the next person that they did this, but could we get a better source?
ulucs 6y ago
Don't you dare speak out against your corporate overlords, not that anyone can hear.
300 6y ago
Here's a better source: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/28/22255245/google-deleting-bad-robinhood-reviews-play-store https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/28/22255245/google-deleting-...
Tepix 6y ago
This is worrying indeed because the negative reviews are clearly justified.
- egwor 6y ago
  Are they though? Do we know all the facts? This is a heavily regulated market and Congress are going to get involved. Let's wait and see. One thing to consider: if they've provided leveraged finance to buy this stock then they're exposed by this massive move too. They therefore have to manage risk, and so limiting further exposure does make sense. If these people can't pay their bills (if leveraged), I don't know who takes on that risk. It might be RH or this could be passed on to others. Either way someone needs to take that risk on. Some have asked why not just stop the leveraged finance, and I don't know the answer. Another thing to consider: is it legal to allow manipulation of prices? The folk are trying to hold the price up. This is a tricky subject to consider. As a professional there are various rules on what is manipulation. Presumably a broker has some responsibility here. All in all, who knows if this is clearly justified. Folk are equally able to go and place orders via other brokers. Whining that broker X can't trade Y doesn't hold water as an argument. If they don't trade X, find a different broker (this is entirely standard practice. Not every broker can trade every instrument). You're not required to execute there. I'm afraid that folk are going to have a really bad wake up call. These markets are really complex and the warnings that your capital is at risk is a really big warning to be heeded. Don't invest what you can't afford to lose. I'm sorry that people are losing here. :(
  - midasuni 6y ago
    I downloaded this app to buy shares as advertised App didn’t allow me to buy shares Delete app, 1* rating, false advertising
    - egwor 6y ago
      Can I propose changing the description slightly to frame how big of an issue it is: I downloaded the app to buy shares. It is the weekend. The markets are closed, so I can't buy shares. Delete app, 1* rating, false advertising. There is always fine print. The challenge is that the fine print here is really complicated. In extreme situations there are rules to consider.
coliveira 6y ago
Another example of Google behaving as a crooked company.
s3tz 6y ago
At least the silver lining in all this is that more and more people are becoming aware of what censorship feels like.
emayljames 6y ago
It only makes it worse for them, as everybody still rates them badly and just highlights both their crookedness.
encom 6y ago
At this point, does anyone take user submitted reviews seriously any more? I mean for anything.
fumblebee 6y ago
I feel naive; what's the incentive for Google to do this?
- Rompect 6y ago
  Their billionaire buddies.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- varispeed 6y ago
  It seems to be in Google's vein. When they removed call recording API from Android, it was a sign they side with all sort of scammers. Call recording is an ultimate tool for fighting any scummy salesmen, especially from insurance companies. Probably they were starting to lose money and asked Google too remove call recording so customers can't defend themselves from predatory practices.
  - jjeaff 6y ago
    Seems more likely that they saw legal liability in states and countries that have a 2 party consent requirement for recording.
villgax 6y ago
All of those reviews are valid since the app fails to perform its core functionality
detaro 6y ago
dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25953538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25953538
- JacKTrocinskI 6y ago
  Didn’t realize we already had a post going, sorry about the dupe!
  - dang 6y ago
    It happens!
rob_sully 6y ago
I'm not sure how I feel about this to be honest. I appreciate they were following their guidelines and wouldn't like anyone to troll an app like this but I don't think google should have removed bad reviews. Unless court ordered maybe, based on FCC findings of market manipulation or something like that. Robinhood sells their client's data to financial institutions. These institutions then can use that to skim off Robinhood's clients. The GameStop fiasco puts all that at risk so they pull the plug. Like a casino kicking you out because you’re winning too much at poker and taking money from their high rollers, who pay a premium to peek at your cards. https://blockworks.co/robinhood-sells-your-data-but-does-that-matter/ https://blockworks.co/robinhood-sells-your-data-but-does-tha...
- egwor 6y ago
  There's a real danger here that there are high level summaries upon summaries from those who don't really understand the details of the markets. Every broker will have various liquidity pools and those pools will be pinged to execute your order. The order has to get best execution (there are legal requirements on it). Without knowing the internal details of RH all of this is speculation. I think that what folk are saying is that Citadel pay for the information on order flow (they don't provide any liquidity?). it sounds like that pays RH bills who have to pay execution and exchange fees. If that's true then isn't the choice to pay the information cost to Citadel or pay some fees to another broker? I suspect that your casino analogy would be more accurate if the gambler was borrowing money from another casino (i.e. leverage or buying options) and they said 'You've hit your limits in borrowing' or the main casino you're in said 'We don't take bets higher than X'.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    Still, in the context of reviews, it's not the job of Google to mitigate the fact that Robin Hood botched it's PR side and couldn't (or doesn't want to) explain its rationale to their users clearly. From the POV of RH's users, the company and the app just pulled a fast one on them, costing individuals lots of money in both real costs and opportunity.
    - 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
christmm 6y ago
Google should not curate reviews. If they do, they should clearly state this on the front page.
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  Well, there are spammers. It is alright to delete fake reviews by bots. But reviews from real people should stay. Even if they have stupid opinions and complain that the app does not work on their old mobile and give 1 star, when the app tells explicitely to have Android x+ or a fast mobile phone. And in events like this, even more.
- izacus 6y ago
  I bet I can find another HN thread where HN people DEMAND that Google curates reviews and apps :D
holstvoogd 6y ago
Corporate bois protecting each other.. What a surprise
Rompect 6y ago
It is totally obvious that the Google Play Store has fake reviews on every single app. I am not talking about bots; I'm pretty sure Google does it themselves. I have found apps which do absolutely nothing correctly and there was not a single positive review in the comments. Still, the app had a 3.9 rating.
- Traubenfuchs 6y ago
  I don't look at stars and app reviews anymore -it all feels completely useless and fake.
  - hutzlibu 6y ago
    I look at reviews from different star ratings and then compare the wording of the review. Usually you can skim out the fakes and morons.
rplnt 6y ago
I hate Google with passion, for the things they do, but this is what they did for every brigade-rating that I can remember. And it makes sense. It's not anyone reviewing the app, it's people mass 1-starring the app because they decided to do so as a hive-mind. It's essentially fake reviews and I wouldn't be surprised if it's automated. Also, as far as I gather, people who wrote a human-like text review to go with their rating didn't get their review removed.
- kristofferR 6y ago
  If a stock trading app manipulates the market by preventing purchases, while allowing selling, of certain stocks that are popular with a democratized hedge fund community, they deserve all the 1 star reviews they get. It's not just an useless app now, it's an actively dangerous scam app.
  - spiderfarmer 6y ago
    It already was a dangerous scam app. The data on trades went straight to front running traders, so they could feed their algorithms and profit off your plans.
    - UweSchmidt 6y ago
      Is that actually true? I thought "frontrunning" was one of the fundamental things that is forbidden by stock trading regulation. Does it not apply when done with those new-fangled computers? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_running https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_running
    - rplnt 6y ago
      I mean, that's what you get for not paying for a service. It's a trade-off people knowingly took.
  - joking 6y ago
    the thing is that robin hood it's not a trading app, you don't buy a share on your name, those shares are pooled and bought and selled off the official market. If you want to invest, use a real broker, but then you will have to pay commissions. Also, have in mind that even if they say that they are commission free, you pay with higher spreads, so if the transaction price is 1, robinhood will sell it to you by 1.02 and bough by 0.98, getting a margin from you each time you make a transaction with them.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rapnie 6y ago
There's more ditching to do. Avoid Play store and install adware-free FLOSS apps from F-Droid. https://f-droid.org https://f-droid.org
- chrisco255 6y ago
  I always check FDroid first, but the selection is far from sufficient. I do hope it continues to grow.
- messe 6y ago
  Is there a FOSS replacement? I highly doubt it.
oliwarner 6y ago
This is bad. I can absolutely understand it for a political pile-on, or an unrelated protest, but this is a fundamental complaint with the service not following operating procedure. If I were king, the app would be pulled until financial amends were made.
- zpeti 6y ago
  This attitude is a big problem, because once you allow it for political pile-on, it's suddenly available for other issues, like this one. It's what every free speech advocate has been saying for years, or decades, or hundreds of years, yet people generally cheer on censorship when its for their own political side.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    "I'm all for free speech, but you can't let that guy say those things."
  - oliwarner 6y ago
    The thing I was attempting to describe is a vote against an app because (eg) its parent company donated to Republicans, something which isn't about the app or service. The Robinhood review bomb isn't that, it's a proper and serious complaint against the service.
bdz 6y ago
I highly recommend how to read Valve's blog posts about review bombing. It's insightful and well done. https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1448326897426987372 https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail... https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1808664240333155775 https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail... https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1621770561051427036 https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail...
varispeed 6y ago
Google should have deleted the app! Otherwise they are in on it and should be investigated too.
Mindwipe 6y ago
I do wonder if there's scope for a class action lawsuit against Google over it's review management on the Play Store. Not just for this, it's just so obviously broken to the point of being completely useless.

251 points by JacKTrocinskI 6y ago

It doesn't seem unlikely that they have som anti-brigading software that automatically or semi-automatically deletes certain reviews. Such as when huge amounts of people in a short time instalsl an app just to immediately leave a bad review, and then uninstall.

IkmoIkmo 6y ago
> Such as when huge amounts of people in a short time instalsl an app just to immediately leave a bad review, and then uninstall. What would normal behaviour look like in a hyped-up app that ended up disappointing?
- visarga 6y ago
  good point even after restoring the previous ratings who would trust the score

progre 6y ago

Well the app was brigaded, They usually do that in such instances.

guerrilla 6y ago
Was it brigaded or were users just justifiably upset by them removing capabilities without warning?

nindalf 6y ago

A link to a screenshot of a tweet. I’m as mad as the next person that they did this, but could we get a better source?

ulucs 6y ago

Don't you dare speak out against your corporate overlords, not that anyone can hear.

300 6y ago

Here's a better source: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/28/22255245/google-deleting-bad-robinhood-reviews-play-store https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/28/22255245/google-deleting-...

Tepix 6y ago

This is worrying indeed because the negative reviews are clearly justified.

egwor 6y ago
Are they though? Do we know all the facts? This is a heavily regulated market and Congress are going to get involved. Let's wait and see. One thing to consider: if they've provided leveraged finance to buy this stock then they're exposed by this massive move too. They therefore have to manage risk, and so limiting further exposure does make sense. If these people can't pay their bills (if leveraged), I don't know who takes on that risk. It might be RH or this could be passed on to others. Either way someone needs to take that risk on. Some have asked why not just stop the leveraged finance, and I don't know the answer. Another thing to consider: is it legal to allow manipulation of prices? The folk are trying to hold the price up. This is a tricky subject to consider. As a professional there are various rules on what is manipulation. Presumably a broker has some responsibility here. All in all, who knows if this is clearly justified. Folk are equally able to go and place orders via other brokers. Whining that broker X can't trade Y doesn't hold water as an argument. If they don't trade X, find a different broker (this is entirely standard practice. Not every broker can trade every instrument). You're not required to execute there. I'm afraid that folk are going to have a really bad wake up call. These markets are really complex and the warnings that your capital is at risk is a really big warning to be heeded. Don't invest what you can't afford to lose. I'm sorry that people are losing here. :(
- midasuni 6y ago
  I downloaded this app to buy shares as advertised App didn’t allow me to buy shares Delete app, 1* rating, false advertising
  - egwor 6y ago
    Can I propose changing the description slightly to frame how big of an issue it is: I downloaded the app to buy shares. It is the weekend. The markets are closed, so I can't buy shares. Delete app, 1* rating, false advertising. There is always fine print. The challenge is that the fine print here is really complicated. In extreme situations there are rules to consider.

coliveira 6y ago

Another example of Google behaving as a crooked company.

s3tz 6y ago

At least the silver lining in all this is that more and more people are becoming aware of what censorship feels like.

emayljames 6y ago

It only makes it worse for them, as everybody still rates them badly and just highlights both their crookedness.

encom 6y ago

At this point, does anyone take user submitted reviews seriously any more? I mean for anything.

fumblebee 6y ago

I feel naive; what's the incentive for Google to do this?

Rompect 6y ago
Their billionaire buddies.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
varispeed 6y ago
It seems to be in Google's vein. When they removed call recording API from Android, it was a sign they side with all sort of scammers. Call recording is an ultimate tool for fighting any scummy salesmen, especially from insurance companies. Probably they were starting to lose money and asked Google too remove call recording so customers can't defend themselves from predatory practices.
- jjeaff 6y ago
  Seems more likely that they saw legal liability in states and countries that have a 2 party consent requirement for recording.

villgax 6y ago

All of those reviews are valid since the app fails to perform its core functionality

detaro 6y ago

dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25953538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25953538

JacKTrocinskI 6y ago
Didn’t realize we already had a post going, sorry about the dupe!
- dang 6y ago
  It happens!

rob_sully 6y ago

I'm not sure how I feel about this to be honest. I appreciate they were following their guidelines and wouldn't like anyone to troll an app like this but I don't think google should have removed bad reviews. Unless court ordered maybe, based on FCC findings of market manipulation or something like that. Robinhood sells their client's data to financial institutions. These institutions then can use that to skim off Robinhood's clients. The GameStop fiasco puts all that at risk so they pull the plug. Like a casino kicking you out because you’re winning too much at poker and taking money from their high rollers, who pay a premium to peek at your cards. https://blockworks.co/robinhood-sells-your-data-but-does-that-matter/ https://blockworks.co/robinhood-sells-your-data-but-does-tha...

egwor 6y ago
There's a real danger here that there are high level summaries upon summaries from those who don't really understand the details of the markets. Every broker will have various liquidity pools and those pools will be pinged to execute your order. The order has to get best execution (there are legal requirements on it). Without knowing the internal details of RH all of this is speculation. I think that what folk are saying is that Citadel pay for the information on order flow (they don't provide any liquidity?). it sounds like that pays RH bills who have to pay execution and exchange fees. If that's true then isn't the choice to pay the information cost to Citadel or pay some fees to another broker? I suspect that your casino analogy would be more accurate if the gambler was borrowing money from another casino (i.e. leverage or buying options) and they said 'You've hit your limits in borrowing' or the main casino you're in said 'We don't take bets higher than X'.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  Still, in the context of reviews, it's not the job of Google to mitigate the fact that Robin Hood botched it's PR side and couldn't (or doesn't want to) explain its rationale to their users clearly. From the POV of RH's users, the company and the app just pulled a fast one on them, costing individuals lots of money in both real costs and opportunity.
  - 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

christmm 6y ago

Google should not curate reviews. If they do, they should clearly state this on the front page.

hutzlibu 6y ago
Well, there are spammers. It is alright to delete fake reviews by bots. But reviews from real people should stay. Even if they have stupid opinions and complain that the app does not work on their old mobile and give 1 star, when the app tells explicitely to have Android x+ or a fast mobile phone. And in events like this, even more.
izacus 6y ago
I bet I can find another HN thread where HN people DEMAND that Google curates reviews and apps :D

holstvoogd 6y ago

Corporate bois protecting each other.. What a surprise

Rompect 6y ago

It is totally obvious that the Google Play Store has fake reviews on every single app. I am not talking about bots; I'm pretty sure Google does it themselves. I have found apps which do absolutely nothing correctly and there was not a single positive review in the comments. Still, the app had a 3.9 rating.

Traubenfuchs 6y ago
I don't look at stars and app reviews anymore -it all feels completely useless and fake.
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  I look at reviews from different star ratings and then compare the wording of the review. Usually you can skim out the fakes and morons.

rplnt 6y ago

I hate Google with passion, for the things they do, but this is what they did for every brigade-rating that I can remember. And it makes sense. It's not anyone reviewing the app, it's people mass 1-starring the app because they decided to do so as a hive-mind. It's essentially fake reviews and I wouldn't be surprised if it's automated. Also, as far as I gather, people who wrote a human-like text review to go with their rating didn't get their review removed.

kristofferR 6y ago
If a stock trading app manipulates the market by preventing purchases, while allowing selling, of certain stocks that are popular with a democratized hedge fund community, they deserve all the 1 star reviews they get. It's not just an useless app now, it's an actively dangerous scam app.
- spiderfarmer 6y ago
  It already was a dangerous scam app. The data on trades went straight to front running traders, so they could feed their algorithms and profit off your plans.
  - UweSchmidt 6y ago
    Is that actually true? I thought "frontrunning" was one of the fundamental things that is forbidden by stock trading regulation. Does it not apply when done with those new-fangled computers? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_running https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_running
  - rplnt 6y ago
    I mean, that's what you get for not paying for a service. It's a trade-off people knowingly took.
- joking 6y ago
  the thing is that robin hood it's not a trading app, you don't buy a share on your name, those shares are pooled and bought and selled off the official market. If you want to invest, use a real broker, but then you will have to pay commissions. Also, have in mind that even if they say that they are commission free, you pay with higher spreads, so if the transaction price is 1, robinhood will sell it to you by 1.02 and bough by 0.98, getting a margin from you each time you make a transaction with them.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

rapnie 6y ago

There's more ditching to do. Avoid Play store and install adware-free FLOSS apps from F-Droid. https://f-droid.org https://f-droid.org

chrisco255 6y ago
I always check FDroid first, but the selection is far from sufficient. I do hope it continues to grow.
messe 6y ago
Is there a FOSS replacement? I highly doubt it.

oliwarner 6y ago

This is bad. I can absolutely understand it for a political pile-on, or an unrelated protest, but this is a fundamental complaint with the service not following operating procedure. If I were king, the app would be pulled until financial amends were made.

zpeti 6y ago
This attitude is a big problem, because once you allow it for political pile-on, it's suddenly available for other issues, like this one. It's what every free speech advocate has been saying for years, or decades, or hundreds of years, yet people generally cheer on censorship when its for their own political side.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  "I'm all for free speech, but you can't let that guy say those things."
- oliwarner 6y ago
  The thing I was attempting to describe is a vote against an app because (eg) its parent company donated to Republicans, something which isn't about the app or service. The Robinhood review bomb isn't that, it's a proper and serious complaint against the service.

bdz 6y ago

I highly recommend how to read Valve's blog posts about review bombing. It's insightful and well done. https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1448326897426987372 https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail... https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1808664240333155775 https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail... https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1621770561051427036 https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail...

varispeed 6y ago

Google should have deleted the app! Otherwise they are in on it and should be investigated too.

Mindwipe 6y ago

I do wonder if there's scope for a class action lawsuit against Google over it's review management on the Play Store. Not just for this, it's just so obviously broken to the point of being completely useless.