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Shame that you're getting downvoted on HN for such views - most consumers don't care about devices designed to be long-lasting and if the technical population d

Shame that you're getting downvoted on HN for such views - most consumers don't care about devices designed to be long-lasting and if the technical population doesn't too then it's totally a lost cause. I've recently purchased a used T530, which was the last model to feature a removable battery, removable CPU, unsoldered RAM, etc etc(for the pedants - yes, later models still had some of these features, but none of them had all of them). It's a fantastic machine that runs everyday tasks without a hitch and with having the option to easily repair it I hope it will last at least another 10 years. The only disadvantage I have compared to the newer T490 model that I use is that it's about 1kg heavier. I think it's reasonable that some consumers would prefer a lighter and thinner machine, even if that includes sacrificing modularity/repairibility, but I doubt those make up the majority and most are just apathetic and willing to go the way of disposable consumerism that corporations are pushing to drive profits further.

spijdar 6y ago
I think you and GP are conflating "repairability" with "upgradability". The only two components in a laptop that are essentially guaranteed to fail in a short-ish timeframe are flash storage and the batteries. As long as these two are replaceable, I think a device is reasonably "repairable". While there's a definite chance of the CPU and memory etc. failing, I think for most people the trade-off in size and weight to accommodate sockets aren't worth it from a repairability perspective. That's where I draw my line, anyway. Flash storage and batteries are essentially guaranteed to fail in 5-10 years of use, and absolutely need to be replaceable. As long as the build quality is decent, the rest can be integrated.
- 0x737368 6y ago
  Whilst I think your argument is valid, I still think lack of "upgradability" correlates with planned obsolescence. All the manufacturer would then need to do is to add a few components that have an expected lifetime just after the warranty time. On the whole, I agree with you that at the very least the battery and RAM should be easily replaceable. I just happen to also think that the increase in weight/bulk is worthwhile tradeoff for the option for me to decide when I want to stop using the machine, not the manufacturer.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    PC was the exception to the norm on the 8 and 16 bit home computers, Apple as survivor of this vertical integration philosophy has showed OEMs where the profit comes from. So naturally OEMs are making laptops as extensible as Atari, Mac, Acorn and Amigas used to be. Want to extend it? Plug an external device, for everything else buy a newer model. This seems to be the future as classical desktops fade away replaced by cloud instances and NUCs.
    - vetinari 6y ago
      Paradoxically to the current topic, NUCs want you to bring your own RAM and disk.
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        Not all of them, specially those being used as thin clients.
  - jsmith99 6y ago
    A socketed CPU doesn't add much upgradebility if you have to stay within the same generation. I think a T530 can take a quad core ivy bridge but nothing newer.
    - webmobdev 6y ago
      AMD was really better in this aspect.
  - forty 6y ago
    My impression is that even on a desktop computer which is highly modulable, after 5/10 years you have to throw away everything but the case and maybe the power supply. New CPUs won't have the right socket for your mothercard, the RAM will need to be DDR(n+1), same for the PCIe port.
    - llampx 6y ago
- webmobdev 6y ago
  > I think you and GP are conflating "repairability" with "upgradability". Why do you think one has to be exclusive to the other? Easier upgradability means easier to repair. And the rare failure of the soldered RAM makes what should have been an affordable repair a very expensive affair as they force you to buy a new motherboard! Note that another major issue with soldered RAM / SSD / CPU / unremovable batteries is that it makes you, the consumer, more vulnerable to price gauging. For e.g. If you don't want a 4GB or 8GB RAM, you are still forced to buy the 16 GB RAM from the laptop maker and have to pay them what they want, even if it is available for far cheaper from other reputable vendors.

spijdar 6y ago

I think you and GP are conflating "repairability" with "upgradability". The only two components in a laptop that are essentially guaranteed to fail in a short-ish timeframe are flash storage and the batteries. As long as these two are replaceable, I think a device is reasonably "repairable". While there's a definite chance of the CPU and memory etc. failing, I think for most people the trade-off in size and weight to accommodate sockets aren't worth it from a repairability perspective. That's where I draw my line, anyway. Flash storage and batteries are essentially guaranteed to fail in 5-10 years of use, and absolutely need to be replaceable. As long as the build quality is decent, the rest can be integrated.

0x737368 6y ago
Whilst I think your argument is valid, I still think lack of "upgradability" correlates with planned obsolescence. All the manufacturer would then need to do is to add a few components that have an expected lifetime just after the warranty time. On the whole, I agree with you that at the very least the battery and RAM should be easily replaceable. I just happen to also think that the increase in weight/bulk is worthwhile tradeoff for the option for me to decide when I want to stop using the machine, not the manufacturer.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  PC was the exception to the norm on the 8 and 16 bit home computers, Apple as survivor of this vertical integration philosophy has showed OEMs where the profit comes from. So naturally OEMs are making laptops as extensible as Atari, Mac, Acorn and Amigas used to be. Want to extend it? Plug an external device, for everything else buy a newer model. This seems to be the future as classical desktops fade away replaced by cloud instances and NUCs.
  - vetinari 6y ago
    Paradoxically to the current topic, NUCs want you to bring your own RAM and disk.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Not all of them, specially those being used as thin clients.
- jsmith99 6y ago
  A socketed CPU doesn't add much upgradebility if you have to stay within the same generation. I think a T530 can take a quad core ivy bridge but nothing newer.
  - webmobdev 6y ago
    AMD was really better in this aspect.
- forty 6y ago
  My impression is that even on a desktop computer which is highly modulable, after 5/10 years you have to throw away everything but the case and maybe the power supply. New CPUs won't have the right socket for your mothercard, the RAM will need to be DDR(n+1), same for the PCIe port.
  - llampx 6y ago
webmobdev 6y ago
> I think you and GP are conflating "repairability" with "upgradability". Why do you think one has to be exclusive to the other? Easier upgradability means easier to repair. And the rare failure of the soldered RAM makes what should have been an affordable repair a very expensive affair as they force you to buy a new motherboard! Note that another major issue with soldered RAM / SSD / CPU / unremovable batteries is that it makes you, the consumer, more vulnerable to price gauging. For e.g. If you don't want a 4GB or 8GB RAM, you are still forced to buy the 16 GB RAM from the laptop maker and have to pay them what they want, even if it is available for far cheaper from other reputable vendors.