4 ms·

> Suspend / resume No The firmware does not support ACPI S3 suspend. Lol at the state of hardware.

cwlb 6y ago
for real! some later versions of the X1C have had S3 patched in but when the X1C6 was first released this was a surprise to me. Apparently Windows is moving towards S1-only and that gets reflected in firmwares originally designed for windows computers. For the uninitiated, without S3 closing the laptop lid will either continue to drain battery pretty damned quickly (S1) OR cause the OS to take much longer to resume completely from disk (S4 aka hibernate). As SSDs get bigger/faster/cheaper in comparison to RAM, S4 will start to seem more equivalent, but to make this sensible on an ultrabook you might want to opt for that 1+TB NVME so you can hibernate on lid-shut without eating a significant fraction of your disk on swap.
- p_l 6y ago
  The requirement for certification with S1 aka Modern Standby btw requires that proper S1 implementation draws same or less power than S3, iirc. But that requires pretty heavy power saving code
- maxerickson 6y ago
  16 GB of RAM seems fine even on a 256 GB disk. (It's plenty at that point, but hardly seems to be the yes/no on the whole deal)
- greggyb 6y ago
  Note for this laptop, specifically, it maxes out at 16GB RAM, and it's soldered, so that is a hard cap. That'd take a 256GB SSD down to 240GB after swap. I don't think it's a big concern for this machine, though certainly could be for some mobile workstation with much more RAM.
neurobashing 6y ago
kidding aside, I'm opinionated: if it doesn't suspend/resume, it's not a laptop.
- mjg59 6y ago
  It suspends/resumes just fine as long as your OS supports it. The issue is that you need much better runtime power management since it's now up to the OS to put parts in a low power state rather than relying on the firmware to do it.
  - 1996 6y ago
    No. Modern firmwares usually support S3 just fine - but it's patched away to make "modern standby" work more easily from the perspective of the hardware manufacturer. With enough whining (ex: the Thinkpad community), the manufacturer can be convinced to replaced their half baked solution by something slightly better. If you do not care about TPM, you can also patch your ACPI tables yourself.
  - neurobashing 6y ago
    well the point is that OpenBSD does not support it, so having OpenBSD on a laptop removes the laptop-ness.
- gcblkjaidfj 6y ago
  There's the opposite. If it doesn't disable suspend, it is not a work computer. my work macbook will close all the network connections/compile/rendering when i close the lid to walk from meeting to meeting (or used to. seems like the universe closed this bug as 'WONT FIX') I have no decent UX to disable that when i need my network connections/compile time/render time/etc... It's either sleep enabled and i can't risk touching the lid, or complicated arcane steps to break sleep and allow me to carry it.
  - borcean 6y ago
    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amphetamine/id937984704?mt=12 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amphetamine/id937984704?mt=12 Amphetamine (for your Mac!)
    - gcblkjaidfj 6y ago
1996 6y ago
No, it's a software problem. First, try disabling TPM (because of a TXT attack from S3), cf https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/acpi-entering-s3-cant-wake-up-anymore.76611/ https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/acpi-entering-s3-cant-wak... and https://www.darkreading.com/vulnerabilities---threats/new-attack-vector-shows-dangers-of-s3-sleep-mode/d/d-id/1331445 https://www.darkreading.com/vulnerabilities---threats/new-at... If S3 is not supported, it is usually due to laziness, to prevent an ACPI GPE storm and causing wakeups in S0ix. People who glue together BIOS code and ACPI tables are not the best and the brightest: instead of using a context dependent EC mask, they simply disable the GPE altogether. You can add that back with a DSDT patch: all you need is a vector for PRW (power resource wake), making sure the GPE for EC wake interrupt is not masked.
gattr 6y ago
It's the same for the recent Dell laptops, unfortunately [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25940172 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25940172

cwlb 6y ago

for real! some later versions of the X1C have had S3 patched in but when the X1C6 was first released this was a surprise to me. Apparently Windows is moving towards S1-only and that gets reflected in firmwares originally designed for windows computers. For the uninitiated, without S3 closing the laptop lid will either continue to drain battery pretty damned quickly (S1) OR cause the OS to take much longer to resume completely from disk (S4 aka hibernate). As SSDs get bigger/faster/cheaper in comparison to RAM, S4 will start to seem more equivalent, but to make this sensible on an ultrabook you might want to opt for that 1+TB NVME so you can hibernate on lid-shut without eating a significant fraction of your disk on swap.

p_l 6y ago
The requirement for certification with S1 aka Modern Standby btw requires that proper S1 implementation draws same or less power than S3, iirc. But that requires pretty heavy power saving code
maxerickson 6y ago
16 GB of RAM seems fine even on a 256 GB disk. (It's plenty at that point, but hardly seems to be the yes/no on the whole deal)
greggyb 6y ago
Note for this laptop, specifically, it maxes out at 16GB RAM, and it's soldered, so that is a hard cap. That'd take a 256GB SSD down to 240GB after swap. I don't think it's a big concern for this machine, though certainly could be for some mobile workstation with much more RAM.

neurobashing 6y ago

kidding aside, I'm opinionated: if it doesn't suspend/resume, it's not a laptop.

mjg59 6y ago
It suspends/resumes just fine as long as your OS supports it. The issue is that you need much better runtime power management since it's now up to the OS to put parts in a low power state rather than relying on the firmware to do it.
- 1996 6y ago
  No. Modern firmwares usually support S3 just fine - but it's patched away to make "modern standby" work more easily from the perspective of the hardware manufacturer. With enough whining (ex: the Thinkpad community), the manufacturer can be convinced to replaced their half baked solution by something slightly better. If you do not care about TPM, you can also patch your ACPI tables yourself.
- neurobashing 6y ago
  well the point is that OpenBSD does not support it, so having OpenBSD on a laptop removes the laptop-ness.
gcblkjaidfj 6y ago
There's the opposite. If it doesn't disable suspend, it is not a work computer. my work macbook will close all the network connections/compile/rendering when i close the lid to walk from meeting to meeting (or used to. seems like the universe closed this bug as 'WONT FIX') I have no decent UX to disable that when i need my network connections/compile time/render time/etc... It's either sleep enabled and i can't risk touching the lid, or complicated arcane steps to break sleep and allow me to carry it.
- borcean 6y ago
  https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amphetamine/id937984704?mt=12 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amphetamine/id937984704?mt=12 Amphetamine (for your Mac!)
  - gcblkjaidfj 6y ago

1996 6y ago

No, it's a software problem. First, try disabling TPM (because of a TXT attack from S3), cf https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/acpi-entering-s3-cant-wake-up-anymore.76611/ https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/acpi-entering-s3-cant-wak... and https://www.darkreading.com/vulnerabilities---threats/new-attack-vector-shows-dangers-of-s3-sleep-mode/d/d-id/1331445 https://www.darkreading.com/vulnerabilities---threats/new-at... If S3 is not supported, it is usually due to laziness, to prevent an ACPI GPE storm and causing wakeups in S0ix. People who glue together BIOS code and ACPI tables are not the best and the brightest: instead of using a context dependent EC mask, they simply disable the GPE altogether. You can add that back with a DSDT patch: all you need is a vector for PRW (power resource wake), making sure the GPE for EC wake interrupt is not masked.

gattr 6y ago

It's the same for the recent Dell laptops, unfortunately [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25940172 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25940172