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To be honest, the more I'm watching this, the more it seems like the same behaviour we saw from the Trump supporters in the build up to 6th Jan. Baseless accusa

To be honest, the more I'm watching this, the more it seems like the same behaviour we saw from the Trump supporters in the build up to 6th Jan. Baseless accusations, incredible emotive language, fact-free discourse and massive ramp up in rhetoric. Progressively wilder accusations with no proof. They don't seem to understand that mass hysteria actually is a reason for a trading platform to bring in limits - especially when there's margin around, and its actually not that big a deal for a hedge fund to go bankrupt. The idea that the entirity of Wallstreet is co-ordinating to back up some hedge fund is... laughable. It's all very high tension, low information at the moment and that seems dangerous. What was the result of this ever going to be? A narrative of being screwed by wall street start to end.

splistud 6y ago
Yes it is very similar in that you seem to have no idea what you are saying about either issue
- Traster 6y ago
  You don't do anything to dissaude me by providing no information to actually dissuade me, but just emotionally reacting. This is the exact sort of hysterical emotoinal reaction to events that shows how dangerous a situation we're in.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    Dudester, you're just saying random shit and then expecting someone to write a peer-reviewed paper in response? Dream on. I can't be like "Rust is a shit language" and then expect someone to write a treatise in response. It ain't never gonna happen.
    - Traster 6y ago
      "Dudester"? You'll note that in other parts of the comments in this thread we actually got into some details about things like counter party risk and why trading platforms have aggregate risks to manage, but we didn't manage to have that conversation in this part of the thread becuase the level of argument was pretty much just "I won't address the point you're making I'll call you names and then call you stupid". Well fine, by the sounds of it, you're the sort of person who also makes those Rust threads unbearable by commenting despite having never worked with or near Rust but calling people names because they have experience and have formed opinions. Let's just put it this way, the way the HN commentary has come across right now is like a guy in a bar telling your about a horse you should place a bet on. That's the level we're at, and that's why I talk about the mass hysteria as the more relevant point, because your average Joe has no business reasoning about dynamics of stock prices of fairly illiquid crappy retail stocks.
Phlarp 6y ago
Let's save these "as bad as the capitol riots!" hot takes until WSB organizes a protest that takes over Citadel HQ. Trading securities and/or advocating for a free & fair market in which to trade those securities =/= literal violent insurrection.
- Traster 6y ago
  I'm absolutely not saying it's as bad as the capitol rights, I'm saying I'm seeing the same disinformation, unsubstantiated claims and absolute freedom from fact based reasoning we saw in those other communities. I made it a point to go and look at the communities that were pro-Trump in the aftermath of the election. There are clear similarities. I'm not saying it's the same thing, but I think we need to seriously take a step back and look at what's actually happening, and what's happening isn't a level headed discussion about free markets. It's a conspiracy riddled hysteria where many people are claiming they're never going to sell a crappy retail stock for what can quite clearly be understood to be emotional reasoning.
satellite2 6y ago
As a brokerage or an exchange, you are required to guarantee best execution and fairness among your customers. It's true that it could legitimately be considered an exceptional situation requiring exceptional mesure. But in that case the only way to do that while simultaneously respecting your obligations would have been a complete halt on that instrument. So the market manipulation accusations seem legitimate.
- Traster 6y ago
  If Robinhood users are massively long GME, a lot on margin, that's a systemic risk for RH. Firstly, there's the risk they're going to lose a tonne from these margin trades. Secondly, there's a risk they're going to destroy their business when the shorts unwind and GME turns out to genuinely be worth $20. Thirdly, if the market does go up there's a whole load of counter party risk where these short sellers don't exit, they go bankrupt. Fourthly, if this behaviour continues their business model is fucked because no one will be paying for toxic order flow. There are lots of really good reasons why RH would want to try and get their clients' net positions flat. Since they are exposed to an aggregate risk that individual clients aren't exposed to - and obviously, those clients won't think about this, but they have operational risk that RH can't execute trades.

splistud 6y ago

Yes it is very similar in that you seem to have no idea what you are saying about either issue

Traster 6y ago
You don't do anything to dissaude me by providing no information to actually dissuade me, but just emotionally reacting. This is the exact sort of hysterical emotoinal reaction to events that shows how dangerous a situation we're in.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  Dudester, you're just saying random shit and then expecting someone to write a peer-reviewed paper in response? Dream on. I can't be like "Rust is a shit language" and then expect someone to write a treatise in response. It ain't never gonna happen.
  - Traster 6y ago
    "Dudester"? You'll note that in other parts of the comments in this thread we actually got into some details about things like counter party risk and why trading platforms have aggregate risks to manage, but we didn't manage to have that conversation in this part of the thread becuase the level of argument was pretty much just "I won't address the point you're making I'll call you names and then call you stupid". Well fine, by the sounds of it, you're the sort of person who also makes those Rust threads unbearable by commenting despite having never worked with or near Rust but calling people names because they have experience and have formed opinions. Let's just put it this way, the way the HN commentary has come across right now is like a guy in a bar telling your about a horse you should place a bet on. That's the level we're at, and that's why I talk about the mass hysteria as the more relevant point, because your average Joe has no business reasoning about dynamics of stock prices of fairly illiquid crappy retail stocks.

Phlarp 6y ago

Let's save these "as bad as the capitol riots!" hot takes until WSB organizes a protest that takes over Citadel HQ. Trading securities and/or advocating for a free & fair market in which to trade those securities =/= literal violent insurrection.

Traster 6y ago
I'm absolutely not saying it's as bad as the capitol rights, I'm saying I'm seeing the same disinformation, unsubstantiated claims and absolute freedom from fact based reasoning we saw in those other communities. I made it a point to go and look at the communities that were pro-Trump in the aftermath of the election. There are clear similarities. I'm not saying it's the same thing, but I think we need to seriously take a step back and look at what's actually happening, and what's happening isn't a level headed discussion about free markets. It's a conspiracy riddled hysteria where many people are claiming they're never going to sell a crappy retail stock for what can quite clearly be understood to be emotional reasoning.

satellite2 6y ago

As a brokerage or an exchange, you are required to guarantee best execution and fairness among your customers. It's true that it could legitimately be considered an exceptional situation requiring exceptional mesure. But in that case the only way to do that while simultaneously respecting your obligations would have been a complete halt on that instrument. So the market manipulation accusations seem legitimate.

Traster 6y ago
If Robinhood users are massively long GME, a lot on margin, that's a systemic risk for RH. Firstly, there's the risk they're going to lose a tonne from these margin trades. Secondly, there's a risk they're going to destroy their business when the shorts unwind and GME turns out to genuinely be worth $20. Thirdly, if the market does go up there's a whole load of counter party risk where these short sellers don't exit, they go bankrupt. Fourthly, if this behaviour continues their business model is fucked because no one will be paying for toxic order flow. There are lots of really good reasons why RH would want to try and get their clients' net positions flat. Since they are exposed to an aggregate risk that individual clients aren't exposed to - and obviously, those clients won't think about this, but they have operational risk that RH can't execute trades.