6 ms·

So I keep reading reports about how hookworms are like a super cure for autoimmune disorders from allergies to Crohn's disease. Does anyone know why we can't ju

So I keep reading reports about how hookworms are like a super cure for autoimmune disorders from allergies to Crohn's disease. Does anyone know why we can't just inject, ingest, or apply whatever it is that they emit? Like...why is there not a treatment for eczema yet better than steroid creams?

saprolino 6y ago
From what I read on the internet, in order to have benefits a human being would need to get infected with worms in childhood.
- BugsJustFindMe 6y ago
  The adult in this article said his allergies went away.
  - at_a_remove 6y ago
    This is a bit old but ... https://web.archive.org/web/20060701163959/http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2006/4/30/91945/8971 https://web.archive.org/web/20060701163959/http://www.kuro5h... (2006, kuro5hin)
  - treeman79 6y ago
    Have an autoimmune condition. Medication works well but side effects are brutal. This is huge gross factor, but if it would give me a normal life I could tolerate it.
rincebrain 6y ago
The three things that come to mind are A) it's extremely time-consuming and difficult to capture the mechanism for how organisms act in the middle of the human body in the middle of their lifecycle when we're not even sure what we're looking for, so it's just not been found yet. B) it might just be safe and cost-effective enough to give people worms temporarily as a treatment instead for now. (I don't know if this is the case, but if they're doing it for a study, the risk profile can't be that bad...) C) even if we isolate whatever mechanism they have (and can synthesize it readily), it's still an immune modulator, so all the same caveats for steroid creams might apply at any significant dose.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  > even if we isolate whatever mechanism they have (and can synthesize it readily), it's still an immune modulator, so all the same caveats for steroid creams might apply at any significant dose. Sure, but it wouldn't be an infection you could spread to other people. It also wouldn't be an infection that could grow, of its own accord, to undesirable levels within you. That's a huge improvement.
  - techdragon 6y ago
    I suspect any final form for a “live” treatment, would probably be a two part sort of thing. “Take worms/eggs day 1, day 2, 3 or 4 you take the anti worming drug to prevent the worms getting much of a foothold”
    - at_a_remove 6y ago
      The pig whipworm eggs used previously for this purpose can hatch in the human body but they cannot survive, so no foothold therapy is needed. Instead, they're just enough to attract the attention of a perhaps overly-excitable immune system.
      - thaumasiotes 6y ago
        > The pig whipworm eggs used previously for this purpose can hatch in the human body but they cannot survive If this became a routine treatment, it seems pretty likely that they'd start being able to survive.
        war1025 6y ago
        That doesn't really follow. For something to evolve like that you need to re-introduce the mutated strains back to the source. If there is no re-introduction (which there wouldn't be, because the worms would be bred in an isolated environment and not the sewer system), then there isn't really anything to worry about. There is no selection pressure at the point where breeding and distribution occurs.
jaggederest 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy Helminthic therapy is a real thing for people with severe autoimmune issues. There are folks in the US right now walking around with relatively mild hookworm infections and substantially fewer autoimmune symptoms :)
- josefresco 6y ago
  Thank you for this. I have an autoimmune disease and welcome any and all alternative therapy options (to discuss with my doctor).
  - chihuahua 6y ago
    There was an episode of NPR's "This American Life" podcast in 2010 that included the story of someone who had terrible allergy problems and ended up curing that via deliberate hookworm introduction. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/404/enemy-camp-2010/act-three-0 https://www.thisamericanlife.org/404/enemy-camp-2010/act-thr...
refurb 6y ago
Because scientists don’t know exactly what the mechanism is yet. But yes, they could potentially identify the mechanism and skip the worms. That said, Coronado Biosciences ran a pork hookworm clinical trial in the treatment of inflammatory bowel syndrome and it failed. More work needed.
lsllc 6y ago
Apparently you can buy "pig whipworm" (Trichuris suis) eggs and ingest them. It seems they can't survive for long in your gut (so there's no danger of an infestation), but it's long enough to trigger whatever cure / autoimmune reset it is that you're looking for. This is just anecdotal (I know someone who did this and says that it worked) -- but please do your own research and consult a healthcare professional!!!

saprolino 6y ago

From what I read on the internet, in order to have benefits a human being would need to get infected with worms in childhood.

BugsJustFindMe 6y ago
The adult in this article said his allergies went away.
- at_a_remove 6y ago
  This is a bit old but ... https://web.archive.org/web/20060701163959/http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2006/4/30/91945/8971 https://web.archive.org/web/20060701163959/http://www.kuro5h... (2006, kuro5hin)
- treeman79 6y ago
  Have an autoimmune condition. Medication works well but side effects are brutal. This is huge gross factor, but if it would give me a normal life I could tolerate it.

rincebrain 6y ago

The three things that come to mind are A) it's extremely time-consuming and difficult to capture the mechanism for how organisms act in the middle of the human body in the middle of their lifecycle when we're not even sure what we're looking for, so it's just not been found yet. B) it might just be safe and cost-effective enough to give people worms temporarily as a treatment instead for now. (I don't know if this is the case, but if they're doing it for a study, the risk profile can't be that bad...) C) even if we isolate whatever mechanism they have (and can synthesize it readily), it's still an immune modulator, so all the same caveats for steroid creams might apply at any significant dose.

thaumasiotes 6y ago
> even if we isolate whatever mechanism they have (and can synthesize it readily), it's still an immune modulator, so all the same caveats for steroid creams might apply at any significant dose. Sure, but it wouldn't be an infection you could spread to other people. It also wouldn't be an infection that could grow, of its own accord, to undesirable levels within you. That's a huge improvement.
- techdragon 6y ago
  I suspect any final form for a “live” treatment, would probably be a two part sort of thing. “Take worms/eggs day 1, day 2, 3 or 4 you take the anti worming drug to prevent the worms getting much of a foothold”
  - at_a_remove 6y ago
    The pig whipworm eggs used previously for this purpose can hatch in the human body but they cannot survive, so no foothold therapy is needed. Instead, they're just enough to attract the attention of a perhaps overly-excitable immune system.
    - thaumasiotes 6y ago
      > The pig whipworm eggs used previously for this purpose can hatch in the human body but they cannot survive If this became a routine treatment, it seems pretty likely that they'd start being able to survive.
      - war1025 6y ago
        That doesn't really follow. For something to evolve like that you need to re-introduce the mutated strains back to the source. If there is no re-introduction (which there wouldn't be, because the worms would be bred in an isolated environment and not the sewer system), then there isn't really anything to worry about. There is no selection pressure at the point where breeding and distribution occurs.

jaggederest 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy Helminthic therapy is a real thing for people with severe autoimmune issues. There are folks in the US right now walking around with relatively mild hookworm infections and substantially fewer autoimmune symptoms :)

josefresco 6y ago
Thank you for this. I have an autoimmune disease and welcome any and all alternative therapy options (to discuss with my doctor).
- chihuahua 6y ago
  There was an episode of NPR's "This American Life" podcast in 2010 that included the story of someone who had terrible allergy problems and ended up curing that via deliberate hookworm introduction. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/404/enemy-camp-2010/act-three-0 https://www.thisamericanlife.org/404/enemy-camp-2010/act-thr...

refurb 6y ago

Because scientists don’t know exactly what the mechanism is yet. But yes, they could potentially identify the mechanism and skip the worms. That said, Coronado Biosciences ran a pork hookworm clinical trial in the treatment of inflammatory bowel syndrome and it failed. More work needed.

lsllc 6y ago

Apparently you can buy "pig whipworm" (Trichuris suis) eggs and ingest them. It seems they can't survive for long in your gut (so there's no danger of an infestation), but it's long enough to trigger whatever cure / autoimmune reset it is that you're looking for. This is just anecdotal (I know someone who did this and says that it worked) -- but please do your own research and consult a healthcare professional!!!